maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=13275+Minuteman+Dr.,+Draper+Utah&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=13275+Minuteman+Dr,+Draper,+Salt+Lake,+Utah+84020&gl=us&ei=h1EUS6fBAZP0sgPSpJiLBA&ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA&ll=40.51039,-111.890656&spn=0.000895,0.002293&z=19&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=40.510448,-111.890676&panoid=xpANwZAPuovzNjoZVdJZdA&cbp=12,75.23,,0,5

So to anyone wanting to send Christmas cards: You can mail it OR you could just drop by CMN Headquarters????

World Wide United Fund/ Marvelous Work and Wonder/ The Sealed Portion/ Human Reality/ Nemelka Residence??? Taggert Residence???

13275 Minuteman Dr., Draper Utah (it was on a press release sent out)

Maybe you should LOOK first, before you go there hoping for a real building address………try this link to Google Earth Maps:

.

Maybe Christmas carolling might be fun, but thats about it though. Unless you have “gas” to donate?

With the sealed subjects playing with themselves this Holiday season, I am sure this will be read by one of them. It is particularly odd how quite it got on the Yahoo group site, not a Wonder to me -CMN’s love sort of stinks. I guess in winter there aren’t too many flies to get caught there, even with pissy You Tube rants.

In the down time, how about setting up a one on one with OZ himself, just me and him - come on Julie what else is he doing with his time?

Chris H.

I look forward to more innovative postings like this one. Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to for new postings?

Nostradamus saw two pillars fall on 11/9, most thought he had it backwards when Sept. 11 happened…. I think the fall of CMN’s morals to promote his book at his estranged family’s expense and the martyrdom of his nephew, is just one of his history’s marked signs - more than just John (Revelations)have seen this. CMN is just filling his shoes in his upcoming worldly role.

You want a website try this out - if refutes every claim CMN makes - pretty well timed too…

http://sealednot.wordpress.com/.

So easy to see how his whims of being Hyrum fitted his purpose of deceiving Mrs. Ida Smith, his city weekly article fit his need then too, his pin ball course speaks for itself.

Stick to your own site, Julie. Keep your Arise and Awake nonsense to your circle-ass-kissing-foot washed-knuckleheads.

If you run a self-hosted WordPress blog, you can use the ScriptureLog plugin to embed the text of the Book of Mormon into your blog.

They died BECAUSE of their country!

Watch this powerful and formidable message at this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7xX2lBfdW4

Oh.. won’t this be fun. hehehe

I couldn’t resist some more MWAW/ WUF ratios:

To fill the Delta Center (20,000)

5 sig a day they would reach it by May 3, 2020

10 sig a day they would reach it by Jan. 4, 2015

20 sig a day they would reach it by May 6, 2012

50 sig a day they would reach it by Sept. 30, 2010

Maybe these will drive up their attempts on their associates, friends, or street walkers?

It is always good to have dreams or goals!

Chris Hasseloften

check these ones out - wanted to start on these ones here first….

According to postings on the WUF site the total number of signatures on their declaration are as follows:
As of Sept. 7, 2009 - 538, Jan. 3, 09 - 492, Jan. 1, 08 - 365, Jan. 3, 07 - 77, and inception Oct. 29, 06 - 01.
So the number of days ratio to signatures are; overall 1 sig for 1.94 days, currently is 1 sig for 5.369 days, and in the best growth it was 1 sig for .8684 days (this was for the first 66 days).

It would be estimated by current growth rates another 21 people will sign up this year, obcourse at current rates.

If they estimate at overall growth rates, to hit 2000 signatures it will be in June 12, 2017, but by current rates - Jan. 30, 2039

Just for when they know they could rent the Delta Center to get them all together (20,000) by overall growth rates - November 30, 2115, but by current rate of growth it will occur on Sept. 6, 2303.

The WUF by far shows more of the “signed” conviction of its members, most of the yahoo group site members of the MWAW have signed it and their family members too. It seems to be a better example of who is supporting their ideals and religion (I think I proved it well enough at the Pow wow, members of the MWAW led by CMN are a religion, maybe not as organized but still qualify by definition).

Now part of the reason is this part one of 3 parts of growth studies I will show, the other two are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints and the Cavalry Chapel Christian Church.

There is reason to this, if the backbone of a religion is based on Heaven’s work, Righteous work which supports Heaven’s fundamentals - they grow, in fact they have numbers which show this clearly in a pattern of Heavenly Father support. But even in current technology standards, the internet has been the more wide spread devise to distribute information - whether good or bad. So poor numbers for today’s growing religions could mean alot of things - Bad public relations, poor word of mouth sharing, poor advertising, or maybe other factors I haven’t considered (maybe their PR Director will clarify why in time). It could be so many different excuses????

So to conclude this portion of growth rates, if the shoe fits then wear it - if the product is man made or man’s knowledge, then it will show it. If it is called of Heavenly Father - it result shows this also. For it is not both, one or the other/ hot or cold/ bitter water good fountain/ good tree bad fruit - it just doesn’t fit the pattern.

Give me a day or so, I want this to settle in, to see what comes excusing it as misrepresented. The other numbers are going to SEAL this argument shut!

Getterdone

Wait till after this scenario, for the next segment of concrete evidence to confound the sealed subjects. For the record the sealed portion which CMN represents is nothing more than one man’s fiction falsely documented by him to be of Jesus Christ/ Heavenly Father’s direction.

in short, these scriptures are not the original translation as provided by Joseph Smith. They were “updated” and revised because the brethren thought it was confusing and put it under the “grammatical corrections” category. Talmage is the person who “updated” the original. His update makes it sound like there is a hole in the bottom and top used for both air and light. The original, on close reading, is different.

There is one hole for air/light, and one hole for air. In other words, a hole in the top to let air and light in, and another hole that leads to an enclosed air chamber–so that when the air/light hatch has been closed for a long time, there is another chamber that can be accessed that held air. In effect, like a pontoon.

It seems ridiculous to me that you would have a hole in the bottom of the boat that was exposed to the elements. With animals, kids, etc. on board, that would absolutely lead to disaster.

Check out Nibley’s lectures. It makes a whole lot more sense.

I find the words of Richard, “And again Julie.. you are wasting time here instead of doing what you are suppose to be doing with your free time. “feed the hungry, clothe the naked, liberate the captive or bind up the wounds of the sick”!!” These are poetic to me especially when I add the following,” Awake, Arise and do what you preach!”.

Why do you think I am so amazed at your group, you know the day of the Saturday Pow wow, I took a homeless man, in with me to Burger King and bought him lunch, right there in front of all of you, but I guess you wolfing down your food you probably never noticed. I mean security did, they thought he was bothering me, sort of cleared that up when I handed him the receipt and the change. The city library area is full of persons to help, even if it is just your old clothes, a value meal, even your extra bottle of water, and change. I thought when I was walking over the street how odd, all the members of the Pow wow walked right by this man standing out front on the sidewalk - I guess just like CMN motto - or at least the one I see him pushing inadvertently - “Do what I say, not as I have done!” Such a peculiar group indeed.

So to answer your posts, other than my questions to be answered, I have only asked for an autograph, and my meeting confirmation - and neither of these would be so much of a demand if CMN was being prompted by Heavenly Father - he really isn’t getting the same downloads(revelation) I receive. So if the king of the WUFfy mobile packed with his little kids can’t make a pit stop then tell him to not to worry his little head, babysitting is tough work especially when they have voices in their heads arguing with them????

So the bargain price of $60 and S&H for two slices of sealed history, I will start recycling my cans and bottles now so I can maybe get reading / working on them before Halloween. I found humor in using my recycled old refuse to purchased someone else’s refuse they recycled too. And for the record crap attracts more flies than Honey and vinegar, and like CMN’s site it shows they get stuck in there too.

So I think often, what would happen if no one existed to confront the “Heaven’s wonder of CMN’s sealed subjects”, lets use our imagination a bit….

Do you think the lines to see or hear him would marvel the world? Didn’t happen at the Pow wow, maybe bad Public notice?
Do you think the websites would crash daily from over visiting and downloads? Maybe a counter would be good.
Maybe the WUFfy foundation, would of made it in the Deseret News under notable Utah charities? But CMN would have to put the foundation back out from under his sole personal control, back to public view.
Maybe proselyting literature would be free to all seeking the truth? ($60 is pricy truth)
Maybe the membership number of past months at the yahoo site would actually be a representation of the group name?
Maybe forming some local charity drives would at least get the homeless in WUFfy t-shirts, I mean cheap advertising right???
Maybe printable online books would be less selfish of Heaven’s glory, I mean it is Heaven’s right?
Maybe a site based on prayerful topics, and video/ radio broadcasts with call in Q&A would be more effective?? Then the kids fighting for long winded notoriety.
Do you think CMN really has his act together yet, I mean if Heaven was prompting the Fab4 to help him, where is the obvious hand of divinity in his fruit or works? I bet the wait isn’t Heaven’s idea, right?
Do you think the Gold Plates would not stand as their own witness, if presented, I mean it wouldn’t hurt Heaven’s goals, they are by the way CMN preaches are firmly settled on him to finish things up right?
Do you think throwing and chipping the U&T, that they need to be returned to get a Nanotechnology tune up?
Is CMN’s RV the mobile revelation temple or tabernacle?? Is CMN’s Holy of Holies with a two (roll) stick holder?

Maybe good for now,

I mean you don’t answer any of them Julie Rivers Walters, I thought you had to keep up the public needs, or was the position just “Affairs” appointed. Seemed like your tennis pal thought so?

The gold robot maid, Dot Marix on Space balls, really fits your real life calling. Same look, same and specifically opposite in so many ways - good movie if you haven’t seen it in a while. Joan Rivers isn’t that far from Barbra Walters.

And you should know better, I don’t even write like JJ, never met him, and even showed you my ID at the Pow wow. And for the record, I can’t see how even remotely Richard could be either. If this is from the cut and paste posting you have slobbered over for months, you might want to go get your head’s voices checked out asap.

Chris M. Nemekla / Smith - the former who was, who isn’t, and will yet BE - still seems Biblically similar to the Antichrist and his Beast. I guess used for good and evil went for the whole Smith family.

One of these posts I’ll recap all the Anti Christ parallels between CMN and WUFfy, it is a growing list.

Getterdone

Chris, remember, too, all these books may be read FREE online at thesealedportion.com website

Of course they do! You know as well as I do that over 14 million people are curious about the seal portion that was not given to Joseph. And you say.. Christopher has it.

If that is true.. then they have satisfied one’s curiosity!

But if you say they don’t do that.. then Christopher’s TSP isn’t real either.

And still again sweetheart.. I am not JJ.

TSP=$26.99
SNS=$34.99

Plus shipping and handling.

I’m sure we can gift you copies of “666 Mark of America”.

The only one Christopher will sign is the Limited Edition of “666″.

Sorry, but he says it’s not his work–it was given to him and he won’t take any credit for it by signing it.

If you’d like to know more please contact me at jlt1920@yahoo.com or join the discussion group.

The way I figure it.. To ask John the Beloved should not be that much of a problem… after all it was just within the last week or so that John sent CMN an e-mail that he shared with the group.

And I have to say that CMN is being rather selfish and not sharing John’s email address with others.

It would be rather easy for him to hit the “Reply” button and say.. Hey John.. I have a quick question for you. Just where does the Book of Mormon geography take place? I mean.. there are five theories out there.. which one is right? Not that it is important WHO is right or wrong.. but just let the “REAL TRUTH” shine forth.

Still.. we need more than just a 100 followers to jump start this global thing. Joseph Smith had more than a 100 followers within the first month after organizing the Church in 1830. (It still makes me so mad that Joseph just created the Church after finally getting the Book of Mormon published just to create a stumbling block for the people in the latter days.) I mean.. nothing like cutting off the feet of your disciples and then telling them to go forth into the world.. on crutches and wheel chairs. Suppose he wanted to play the sympathy card?

Ah shucks.. maybe it really won’t be until after the fall of the Government.. the total calamity on the earth.. some major reduction in world population.. (just kinda hard to manage billions of people) that the Lord comes back to re-establish ZION on this earth.

Book of Mormon is proof that civilizations that were once righteous and lost their way.. that God does come back to reclaim them. We as LDS as a “group” can not think that as a “group” we are righteous. The Lord has to keep saying the same things over and over and over again. As a group.. we are not getting it! Doesn’t mean that he has abandoned the Church or the network he has created in the past 175 years!

Imagine.. if you will.. one day a cave being discovered.. full of ancient artifacts that verify the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon from a physical aspect. All those who had doubted in the past.. would have to come to the realization that they were wrong.. their leaders had deceived them. And then watch how the gathering commences again.

I say.. if you don’t have all the truth before you on your plate.. live that which you do have and don’t stop searching for more. You can’t go wrong!!

Your post on the Book of Mormon geography, has had me thinking. First the 3 Nephites and John in general have had 2000 years to mentally record all they have seen and done. Now my guess is they probably didn’t write any of it down. This I think would be contrary to Heaven’s will, so now there is the help they are to give the world while they tarry. And I use the phrase what would Jesus do? They are as close as any of us would ever get, so they would be the perfect example. And to start this line of thinking Jesus wanted the greater majority to follow him, this was his mission to help those who would listen.

So with this more perfect knowledge of the world and the secrets of it, would the greater majority not be the goal. Maybe not car pooling around with CMN in the WUFfy headquarters. If the world as we know it needs a kick in the pants to get things on the right track wouldn’t the “Fabulous Four” have resources unimaginable to our limited minds. Think about all the riches lost, secrets buried, and “keys” to bestowe on those worthy. I do believe they were given authority to many things with proper authority, for they would be truly connected to the spirit of Heaven’s will.

So with limitess power and resources they could do all that Heaven desires. So why again was CMN chosen, his past valor? his foreseen legal prowess? his stunning flowing hair? maybe it was his Cityweekly article? Hard to guess this one. I doubt it was his lack of financial desire for this was the first thing he claims to have thought about when Joseph handed him the plates, it wasn’t family sake for he had plenty of evidence to show this not to be the case, even with grandpa there. So the Fab4 still wanted him still according to CMN, surely to give such amazing stories a foundation with their names. So out of all the things the Fab4 wanted to impart to ensure their efforts to go forward they pass down some knowledge - Heaven’s gold. But leave him in the Space balls Headquarters, his RV. With still more trials than before.

In Joseph’s case, he got alot of added burden, but he was given tremendous strength and support - for this is how Heavenly Father works, and this has been a pattern in all of his works. I mean with in the first 5 years they were on their way working on building the first temple, and so on. I guess if you had to chalk up CMN’s dowelry he has a burial plot, pretty creepy, he better pray his own prophecies of having his name on it before 2012 aren’t self fulfilling - like Moses and the Pharaoh - Heavenly Father has an interesting way of making your own words come true.

And in Joseph’s time, giving the Book of Mormon was meat enough for a lot of changing that needed to occur to the whole world prior to Jesus coming, with out him laying to waste the whole of the earth.

So yes Richard, if CMN has the “key” to open the door to finish the work he should be able to have these things answered by either Heaven or the Fab4. Who ever is appointed to interact with him, if he is really chosen. Sure they may have issues with showing off the Gold Plates but if this it, I mean if this is the final chosen prophet then why wait, lets getterdone. Get your foundation a roaring, show the world line upon line of Fab4 secrets. The flood of persons would be unprecedented in history, nothing could stop that final charge. So I wonder, why the wait, why the lack of support, why the mystery in having any of the Fab4 come forward, why the non stop lip service in when they will have their first real contribution in changing anything?, if all this was to lets say start on 2012 wouldn’t you think more would be done to prepare or to do?, If all these implements were just to get the world to this point in its course they would be just that empty vessels - for their purpose was served, the knowledge was given out freely and unconditionally, the world would have one of their last witnesses (last choice before Jesus judges here on earth), even Heaven isn’t really a collector souvenirs - for all the things of this earth WILL pass away - its foretold by almost everyone. Here is CMN, staking his fame on the “Mystery of the Unknown”, with no witnesses, with no major financial growth, with no real membership booms, and with no works to support his pledges.

I think if there was a Fountain of Youth lets say I would bet the Fab4 would know it, if there was a Loch Ness Monster you bet ya they might of fed it, if there was other Alien visitors I would guess they could of hung out together maybe swapped some universal mysteries - so many things could be cleared up, it could be a MWAW search engine of truths.

The world would never be the same, everyone would see it BUT at the current rate of exposure we should be lucky if we get to why this had not happened 175 years ago when the course was so much more manageable. Still think the river freezing to leave Missouri was pretty obvious Heaven still had their hand in the LDS church’s future. The expansion of stakes, the opening of countries, the implementation of the church welfare system, the disaster relief provided, and the for certain the tempering of the saints to stick to the core values!

Could you Julie or Jay or PWHAM or other lifer of the WUFfy farm, please give me some Google Earth coordinates of the 2012 burial site??

Could I get a cost on a full set of MWAW books, I would pay extra for an autographed set!

Is Minuteman drive the actual physical location of the WUFfy/ MWAW office?

Did the foot washing fluid get thrown out??? Are there vials for wearer protection for sell?

Did the any of the Fab4 get to see the footage yet from the Pow wow??? Did they see me?

Who hair is longer Jay or CMN, it looked close to me, is there a rule not to go beyond his length yet?

See Julie I have really no desire to go back, lots of questions to post here!

Will you participate in my Book Review project of the MWAW books?

Chris Smith, senior. - I think I am a brother too

Are you just putting on the “blond” act?

Who do you “advertise” for when you come here? Are you really CMN pretending to be Julie?

Pull your head out of the sandy foundation and get a “real” clue what is going on. LOL

I know of JJ. I have conversed with JJ. I have never met him face to face. I know what he does.. and what he has to say about things. I like his teachings… for I have read much of what he has written.

But as I have stated.. I am NOT JJ.

And again Julie.. you are wasting time here instead of doing what you are suppose to be doing with your free time. “feed the hungry, clothe the naked, liberate the captive or bind up the wounds of the sick”!!

LOL

Go tell your anti-polygamy story to Christopher. Did he actually need to get a divorce from his polygamous wives?? or did he just “leave” them?

And my goodness.. does everyone who knows about freeread.com have to be JJ Dewey? LOL

Just type in his name and do a Google search and you will find his websites:

#
The Writings of Joseph John (JJ) Dewey | Home Page
A gateway to the writings & discourses of novelist & spiritual teacher JJ Dewey.
www.jjwritings.com/ - Cached - Similar
#
FreeRead.Com - Website Of JJ Dewey - Spiritual Teacher & Author Of …
FreeRead.Com - Home Page of Joseph John (JJ) Dewey - Spiritual Teacher & Author of The Immortal series.
www.freeread.com/ - Cached - Similar
#
Excommunication of JJ Dewey from the Mormon Church
by JJ Dewey March ~22, 2002. The next step the Nephites took was to vest greater power in the authorities, thus giving them power to dictate: “Therefore …
www.greaterthings.com/JJDewey/Bio/excommunication.htm - Cached - Similar
#
J.J. Dewey — Remnant Christian, Patriot, Metaphysicist
JJ Dewey synthesizes inspired wisdom from East and West. Presents ‘fictional’ dialogue with John the Revelator who was given to remain on earth until the …
www.greaterthings.com/JJDewey/ - Cached - Similar

Are you still a secret follower of JJ? You must be.. knowing what you know about him!

JJ has much more insightful things to teach than Christoper does.

Funny how the word “reality” is not found in the old or new testament even once. It is found in the Book of Mormon.. once. I would suppose that if “true reality” were so important for man to know about and understand for his salvation.. Any one of the prophets.. messengers.. angels.. disciples.. etc.. could have mentioned it in the last 4000 years.. NO? But alas.. it is the greatest secret that God has and he has with held it from man. Boy oh boy… should I feel so lucky now?

Calling you a silly girl is not name calling.. it is a description of what you are to me… a silly girl. I actually have to Laugh out Loud at some of the things you do… and say.

I ask one question and you have to come back and ask me how me asking my question has anything to do with.. how did you put it? “feed the hungry, clothe the naked, liberate the captive or bind up the wounds of the sick” ?

And yet.. here you are…. AGAIN.. taking precious time away from doing your part to “feed the hungry, clothe the naked, liberate the captive or bind up the wounds of the sick”. Really.. you should be ashamed of yourself!!

And Julie.. just because you say I am follower and say that I follow him to all his sites.. does not make your statement true. You are a very confused silly girl and we have to make certain “allotments” for you. Go in peace.

Side note to GD:

Thanks for “that” picture.

I am not really interested in going back to MWAW - a.k.a. OZ, all I wanted was to talk to the pinhead at the charge, Oz Pinhead, the wizard. (The Wizard of Oz’s real name is Oscar Zoroaster Phadrig Isaac Norman Henkel Emmannuel Ambroise Diggs. In short, it spelled out O.Z.P.I.N.H.E.A.D. But the Wizard didn’t like that name because it was Oz Pinhead. So, he shortened it to Oz, which he wrote on his hot air balloon when he sailed into the land of Oz.)

I spoke to him, I wasn’t deterred or scared down, I saw the smoke and mirrors, I tried asking my questions, I got really nothing out of the meeting, other than what I already had in me - just like the characters did.

Sure I have more questions or curiosities but, in CMN’s world they make sense to him and those who follow him. You HAVE to become indoctrinated to join(you have to have read the TSP, to participate. Then you have to have read the subsequent works to then really understand yourself and life). So long and short if you want to put your “free will” aside, to be required to read the books just to be able to talk to him or to join the group by all means - just do it. Who knows maybe by time you are through your tenancy there you will be handing over your wills, estates, and common sense to be dealt away with as part of the beast built by pinhead himself, still amazed it’s name comes out like a wolf.

Remember when the world really understands the concept of “Real estate of you mind” and what you take with you from your earthly experiences here, and what will do you actual good in the next stage of our development (spiritual kingdom)- I don’t see his publications really embracing what Jesus wants you to do - It is what CMN wants you to do (keep in mind Jesus is the gate keeper). I mean this is CMN’s “secret” to tell you how it really is, right - LDS temple ceremony, Bible revelations, human existence, and coming… prophet of old sayings - made sense with the Light of CMN’s moon.

SO a bigger “WOLF” filled with earthly donations will rise forth and nurse the world of her ailments. Seems, so End of times biblical to me.

I do have an idea Julie/ Jay, there is a JJ grouping, how about I buy 3 sets of your “standard” literature which you consider the best way to introduce a newcomer to your group. I found 2 other readers (professional SLC native white 45 - 65 men) that you are pretty gifted sharp thinkers, you can meet them if you want prior. And they will read the works - then report, I’ll take their “book reports” (publicly if needed) and post them here - whether good or bad. But I am not handing them print protected links to the books - them including myself want real books to underline and note. Each of the readers not to discuss the assignment till all 3 are done. One is Catholic (he is going in for a double hip replacement in 3 weeks, he will be on R&R for 2 months), the other choice is fluctuating between two last choices but one is an attorney the other is retired navy. None of these men are aware of this possible assignment, in fact I could have you tell them what is required, if you wanted. So you decide, you up for a review.

Even if not, will you at least sell me a complete set of books? Still have another idea to try out.

Side note Richard, Julie reminds me in her appearance to be comparable to Barbara Walters. Sherri Nemelka is comparable to an older Demi Moore. Just my perception though?

Christopheeris Prentise

How do you know what “JJ’s sites do” if you’re not him!! (you give YOURSELF away every time :-))

And yes you are correct you have no followers… you are, however, a “follower” of Christophers—you follow him and his sites everywhere he goes!

If you’d read TSP (gave yourself away AGAIN, JJ) you’d know we don’t believe in polygamy–that is the LDS church started under Brigham Young that does.

I have to say.. when you get something stuck in your head.. you just can’t let it go.. can you? It is like a dog with a bone.

Well.. I can tell you Julie that you answering me here.. does NOTHING to “feed the hungry, clothe the naked, liberate the captive or bind up the wounds of the sick” either.

And trust me Julie.. “his truth” has not and could not “destroyed all my followers and the attention my websites get” because I have no followers.. I have no websites that do what JJ’s sites do. I am not JJ Dewey.

I just love the way you love to make statements by asking a question.

Have you ever gotten that wedding proposal yet from Christopher? Are you really gonna be happy by being the “next” wife?

Richard.

Besides that— “geographical locations” from the Book of Mormon do NOTHING to “feed the hungry, clothe the naked, liberate the captive or bind up the wounds of the sick”.

You just don’t get it, Mr. Dewey, do you?

I’m so sorry his truth destroyed all your followers and the attention your websites got…but at least they kept you busy.

Maybe you could try to start up your own website that has NO reference to The Sealed Portion, since you don’t believe it has been translated.

WHY do you stay here?

I don’t believe you’ve picked up one devotee have you?

Julie

Thank you, brother, for taking the time to post so thoughtfully. It turns out we share much thinking in common, which thing I would not have supposed (which is not to my credit). And where we differ, we can differ in love and respect for one another.

PBMAH

I was not in a competition with you. Before two people can compete.. one must understand what it is that they are competing to do. The fact that you created a competition after the fact.. is really no competition at all.

But if you want to say you win.. then that is fine with me.

The fact that you try to use the same tactics that the Christ used on mankind is honorable. However, he was using it on people who didn’t know better… and were far more susceptible to it. There are those that need to have the fear of hell and damnation to keep them on the right path. Then there are others that choose the right path and have made that decision for themselves.

It is the God within.. we need to pay attention to. Those words of Christ work very well on those that need and have their God without. But if we follow the Christ.. and see that he paid attention to his God within.. and that is what he has been telling us to do. We are gods.. and as soon as we start believing it.. we will start trying to act like it.

But what is amazing.. is that I often listen and communicate with my God within.. and no manner of quick talking will get me to see something which is not there. I have read the Book of Mormon and know the spirit which comes from that book. I do not feel that spirit in the least when I read anything written by Chris. I do not “see” what you see. I do not feel excited nor that he is a messenger sent from God.

But.. people have the right to be fooled and blinded. It has been happening since the beginning of time. People can choose to follow Christ.. or not… Christ allowed them their free agency. Some may just be taking the long way home. And in taking the long way.. there is more suffering, pain, and damnation that await.

Richard

(GD, please disregard the CAPS when you write, so that you don’t get frustrated)

: )

I came knocking to CMN’s door more than once, but with out him violating “my free will” I want to ask my questions prior to consuming my focus into his works. I brought this up at the Pow wow, the LDS church doesn’t make it mandatory to read the Book of Mormon to get baptised or to even go to church - SO why does CMN think his is any better of a reason. That is what missionaries are for, ones that are truly called to be that, they are there to answer you questions to help you - BUT since none of his followers really have the answers I am looking for, I’ll wait for him. Its sort of a logistics problem for him, he wants the control and recognition but other than appointing some watch persons and washing every one’s feet - he has no one “truly appointed” (I think Nobody’s Business was the closest with his laying on of his hands to set him apart) but that came and went.

So even you PBHAM, if you represent him, then where are you credentials? And like my question in the Pow wow again - where is the flow chart of authority in your members? If you were there then you should know this, maybe it was covered on Sunday??

But still unless you are him, or the supposed John who wrote him, you are just a little child to me, for those were his words to have you become as little children. And I do know why Jesus said it the first time, but CMN saying it with out authority, well it sounds and seems like it is worded - Papa CMN and his holy ghost kids.

And still take your finger off the shift key, and just become an adult for a little bit and write with common sense. Leave your Capital letters alone, you think I would think more of you or put more emphasis in reading your nonsense with all the capital words - not a chance so give it up, I am still not ready to learn from you. Its your upper wisdom which seems like it only comes fresh from your leader that I am interested in, this is where my questions might get resolved.

Keep in mind when you preach from CMN’s books of “knowledge”, it really has no turning effect on a recipient’s mind or soul unless they conclude there is reasonable doubt that CMN is called of God. He has not proven this by any means in any case, in fact HIS history is such only to make you question it further. His books are that, just fiction books. His “religion” has no resemblance of organization. He is just fishing for followers. If the work was really called of Heaven, wouldn’t you think there would be brighter help coming forward, but as like me, until my questions have been resolved why in hell would I want to be a part of a seemingly sinking ship with CMN at the wheel?

Eventually even the 3 Nephites and John will get tired of the use of their names and come to exact their vengeance. I said a long time ago, that screwing with Book of Mormon history is going to piss off alot of ancestors of North and South America - wait till they have their day too. Fiction is one thing but claiming you are written into their sacred records is instant damnation for eternity.

And even in the eternal view of Heavenly Father, though we may have common DNA ancestors, unless you are working for the same Jesus/ Heavenly Father/ and Holy Ghost protocal that the LDS church worships you have a long way to make it back to being able to call me brother. And I have no need of servants, and friends with their own agendas aren’t really friends either. So stick to those who understand you like the other kids, unless you bring words direct from CMN, and info on meeting him.

Hold your peace till then, Huckleberry. You are not done with time out, so sit quitely and fold your arms.

C.M.H (I always thought it odd how close they were, yet represent so entirely different things)

YOu have asked repeatedly, “What did you come looking for?”

I came looking for YOU, dear brother. To see if you were being true to your HUMANITY.

And you and your brother, Richard, let my words trip you up … for the written word is ONE-dimensional … therefore, you could not perceive the LOVE and RESPECT conveyed through the words I have written. And I used EXPRESS words, as Christ does. But they did not work upon your heart the way I HOPED. But I used them with the best INTENTIONS that they might be for YOUR SAKE.

Yes, if you met me in person, then you would know of my LOVE and RESPECT for you.

I TRULY thought that PERHAPS you would have had a CHANGE OF HEART, even like ALMA THE YOUNGER, when you met Christopher Marc Nemelka.

If I have made a mistake in coming here, it is that I misJUDGED you, but ONLY in THAT respect.

But I still think you have GREAT POTENTIAL, brother, if you would EMPOWER your MIND and your HEART, TOGETHER, as I have done.

So now I shall cease being a thorn in your side, dear brother … and I will let you be.

BUT … as I said before … you WILL one day have ETERNAL JOY and HAPPINESS in the kingdom of heaven, IF you choose to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

My only hope was to introduce you to the KINGDOM OF GOD WITHIN YOU. But … as ALMA THE YOUNGER … perhaps I did “SIN IN MY WISH.” Perhaps I should let you be. Perhaps I should not have come to you, as I have. Perhaps I did NOT do unto you as I would have you do unto me.

BUT … if YOU ever find the FULLNESS OF TRUTH, dear brother … then I ask you now …. PLEASE come to me and share it with me, as I have tried to do to you.

With the DEEPEST LOVE and RESPECT for you,

I remain,

Your friend and servant,

PBMAH

So what gives, you had to of forgotten all that your leader said about those “wanting” to be taught. I don’t care for CMN’s wisdom, nor yours, so unless you can get that through your brain washed mentality - I rest my case. He really doesn’t have the following I once thought he did, and it surely isn’t organized enough to do much worldly good, and I haven’t heard of one community project, one fund raiser, one attempt to practice what you preach - I think you members of CMN will be lip syncing all the way till the last day prior to judgement. I mean how many years has it been and still no notable efforts to help change anything. The one item worth noting is CMN dissolving his charitable foundation to have all control and financial duties in his name, now there is one world plan man - still like the Anti-christ though.

The front page in the Deseret News says Utah is number one in charities, may be you could submit your foundations name to be recognised next time. Maybe an advertisement saying how wonderful your group is, or how you want to change things in the world. I mean you don’t have any condensed foundational beliefs (like a list - i.e the Articles of Faith), you don’t have a physical address (or is minuteman drive the one?), you don’t believe in prayer at your meetings, you don’t give receipts on your donations to the foundation (you might want to change that first before you go public again), you didn’t even offer any free literature at your Pow wow (I would of thought real books for your friends to have would of been smart - not print locked e-books), you could of validated parking at the library too, and you could really focus on getting your own house in order before you go off spouting doctrine.

Like I also said, I have my questions still and I took pretty good notes at his Pow wow. I would be a better friend than foe, but lets face it. If CMN doesn’t want to clear things up, then fine, I will keep pointing out the short comings and false truths he comes up with and share them with everyone I meet. As far as your input save it for those on your group site, where the members can’t “kiss” enough of each others butts.

Here you just seem out to start something, and if that is what you want, then let me do it with your leader, why waste my time on you? or Julie? or Jay? If none of you have any thoughts of your own, I’d rather talk to the person responsible for filling your little childish minds.

Have your papa CMN call me when he is ready, like I said I can have the meeting anywhere, anytime but you are like little kids to me now - just doing what you can get away with before you get “cut down”. lol

Now go sit in time out and think about what you have done, until you are sorry!

Chris Hasseloften

That is EXACTLY what “struck dumb” (Alma 30)in the presence of a True Messenger of God, or Prophet, Seer and Revelator looks, sounds and feels like.

It is finished then … you have sealed your mind and heart and have brought upon yourself your own stance with respect to this Marvelous Work and a Wonder. (Oh, there are other more EXPRESS ways of saying what you have done to yourself, dear brother … but let’s leave it at that!)

And here are the words and the name-callings by which you will be “judged” at the last day …

“CMN was ‘taunting’ me”

“bush dialogue”

“For in each of the statements that his followers just gobble up, there are the things he isn’t saying, but for his followers they just glaze over and gobble it up.”

“This is exactly what all the prophets of old warn against, and especially what the Anti-christ will do.”

“just a whole lot of double talk.”

“seems like the Anti-christ mantle is fitting him just nicely”

“Do think there is much more to prove?”

“I was glad I stuck to my convictions and went.”

“now I see PBMAH, is somehow off in his or her own world, trying to have some fun or is this an assignment?”

“If you think there was win or loss in the 2 question periods I had to ask a question to CMN then you are an idiot.”

“Don’t forget, know it all …”

“I am looking for straight forward reality - not scripture, not sealed portion crap, not 666, not secret or sacred - just common sense answers.”

“Sounds like scripture mingled with “his take on reality” (which only qualifies him for winning the mark of the Anti-christ”

“And please how much more obvious should it be that his own book, 666 dismisses all the past views or interpretations of the John’s Revelations - for this primarily where the Anti-christ is described, couldn’t of guessed that one??”

“And further more if the 3 Nephites or John are keen to emailing his group discussion, do you think they could write with a better foreign accent?”

“I still think it fairy tale caliber to think the 2 Nephite brothers go car pooling around the United States with CMN to get things “done”, I mean did they take Space Balls RV spaceship?”

“Eating cucumbers no less, I think he needs to get better script writers, maybe borrow some from LOST or HEROES in their down time.”

“Did you really need to this to get off your chest, PBHAM? Was your day in the spot light of your leader not enough?”

“And take your LOVE and RESPECT and shove it back up CMN’s word processor and see if you can’t get some better truth insights!”

“And I don’t need your WTF friend and servant statements - stick to your own, and believe me, you just give the perfect example to what CMN is raising out of his new children in the new Neverland play park.”

“Profoundly obvious there is alot more CMN is worrying about by sending out his munchkins to ensnare his opposition, and for the slim chance he doesn’t know about all the maneuvers your making, then really stupid tactics when he professes his PPP protocols - you all belong together!”

“Maybe get some Jesus juice and have a slumber party in WUFfy headquarters.”

“I see CMN filling a recent King spot just nicely also.”

Have more CHARITABLE words ever been written than by this Chris H? Let the world judge. As for me, I do not judge him. He is a dear brother of mine … and he will be happy in his own kingdom some day just like the rest of us, if he will one day agree simply to do unto others as he would have them do unto him.

But alas, there does not appear to be an Alma the Younger in the making here. And I DID have hope for Chris H. It would have been Marvelous and Wonderous to have witnessed him finding his TRUE SELF.

PBMAH

I would LOVE to COMPETE with you on the question of which of us has shown forth the GREATEST love and respect for GD. I believe I would win that “competition” against you.

Neverthess, I desire INSTEAD to show forth my love and respect for YOU, by sharing with you that I used certain scary terms in QUOTES that I would encourage you and GD would view with a grain of SALT … for my words were merely patterned after the way the CHRIST uses seemingly harsh words that are not really so harsh for a wise purpose. For it has been written that the Christ has said that “it is written eternal damnation [for example, because] it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.”

I have done the same for GD for the same reason … but in this case that it might work upon his heart for his OWN glory … for the glory of the kingdom of God that is WITHIN HIM, even getterdone … and now I will read his post and see if I can assist him in love and response in any way … if I cannot, I will not respond to his post; if I can, I will respond, but ONLY for his sake, and for the sake of those who have the potential like him to becaome as Alma the Younger of old …

MOST love and response to you, Brother Richard.

PBMAH

He really plays to his group following, but still I didn’t lose my cool. Sure there were alot more questions, but lets face it he is alot less of threat than I thought, after looking him eye to eye. For in each of the statements that his followers just gobble up, there are the things he isn’t saying, but for his followers they just glaze over and gobble it up. Does anyone there question how he is making his “Plan and Salvation” for his religion? This is exactly what all the prophets of old warn against, and especially what the Anti-christ will do. And yes by CMN saying we all get to “bypass” Jesus and deal with Heavenly Father directly because CMN says we are the Holy Ghost in human form - is just a whole lot of double talk. It was Jesus’ plan in the pre-mortal existence and Satan’s plan, and obcourse Heavenly Father chose Jesus. Now all of sudden CMN has a mission and plan, seems like the Anti-christ mantle is fitting him just nicely, a little power and insight and he goes right in for washing of his followers feet, his own version of soul cleansing and becoming as a “little child” for his usage. And how many times did he compare himself to Jesus, plenty. Do think there is much more to prove?

I was impressed, that I was the only one there to confront him, I was glad I stuck to my convictions and went. Sure everyone was nice but now I see PBMAH, is somehow off in his or her own world, trying to have some fun or is this an assignment?

Well PBMAH if you would be so bold, as to tell everyone who you are, it would be a good first start. If you think there was win or loss in the 2 question periods I had to ask a question to CMN then you are an idiot. Don’t forget, know it all, I had a meeting set up, but Julie said “I was acting too crazy”, did you see me act crazy there?

In fact I could have a meeting put together in less than week BUT will your fabulous leader be there? It doesn’t cost anything to do this at the library, and yes I think I could spend 4-5 hours just with the questions I have already. It could go longer depending on his slated responses, for I am looking for straight forward reality - not scripture, not sealed portion crap, not 666, not secret or sacred - just common sense answers.

He really is scooping alot into his bag - he likes to give his favorite scripture quotes but then goes right in how he was told to spell it all out so the world can understand it in Human Reality. Sounds like scripture mingled with “his take on reality” (which only qualifies him for winning the mark of the Anti-christ) For he definitely is not Christ, in fact the more he goes at his continual rants about his similarities - it just confirms what I have been saying all along. And please how much more obvious should it be that his own book, 666 dismisses all the past views or interpretations of the John’s Revelations - for this primarily where the Anti-christ is described, couldn’t of guessed that one??

And further more if the 3 Nephites or John are keen to emailing his group discussion, do you think they could write with a better foreign accent? Or maybe CMN could do a Q&A day of the week just for them? I still think it fairy tale caliber to think the 2 Nephite brothers go car pooling around the United States with CMN to get things “done”, I mean did they take Space Balls RV spaceship? Eating cucumbers no less, I think he needs to get better script writers, maybe borrow some from LOST or HEROES in their down time.

I do agree Richard, it really is tough for them to be so in tune to CMN’s teachings in his presence, then to go out of bounds to start what - an argument? Did you really need to this to get off your chest, PBHAM? Was your day in the spot light of your leader not enough? Do you have enough authority to let me come into the discussion group to really ask some questions of the CMN children? Now there would be some lessons for you.

And take your LOVE and RESPECT and shove it back up CMN’s word processor and see if you can’t get some better truth insights! And I don’t need your WTF friend and servant statements - stick to your own, and believe me, you just give the perfect example to what CMN is raising out of his new children in the new Neverland play park.

And even for Random Observer, like I said not so “random” - if he is member of the group and was there at the Pow wow, as it is written by him. Profoundly obvious there is alot more CMN is worrying about by sending out his munchkins to ensnare his opposition, and for the slim chance he doesn’t know about all the maneuvers your making, then really stupid tactics when he professes his PPP protocols - you all belong together! Maybe get some Jesus juice and have a slumber party in WUFfy headquarters.

I see CMN filling a recent King spot just nicely also. And give your capital letters a rest, they get all the use they need on your own home turf.

Chris H.

My goodness are these people critical.

“YOU COULD HAVE BECOME ALMA THE YOUNGER”…. you could have shown your HUMANITY to CMN….. you have ONCE AGAIN “failed”…

I guess if you don’t see it their way… you be damned!

With much more LOVE and RESPECT,

Richard

But … not to worry … be happy … for you were BORN to FAIL, as were we all; for this is ALL about proving to OUR SELF who we are and why we exist.

Yea, after your peculiar experience with CMN, you could have shown your HUMANITY to CMN, and to his friend and mine, Julie, and to the WORLD (instead of your INhumanity), by revealing to ALL what REALLY occurred during your “debate” with CMN.

You could have become as ALMA THE Y0UNGER.

Oh well … it’s all good … for you have now SHOWN your HUMANITY, now by your WORKS, not just your WORDS. And our WORKS will “condemn” us, not just our words and our thoughts. And we will wish the rocks could fall upon us, if we are not built upon the ROCK of our HUMANITY.

Yea, you were DISARMED momentarily by CMN, and you know it. You LOST the “debate.” And you know it.

For the “debate” was about your HUMANITY, compared with the HUMANITY of a TRUE MESSENGER. And ALL of us who were present (except perhaps YOU) could experience the comparison, thanks to YOU.

And that’s why the “debate” FIZZLED … because, as you say, Christopher Marc Nemelka is a “PEOPLE PERSON” … a man of GREAT HUMANITY, when matched up against your own.

And as Random Observer so POWERFULLY informed you, this is all about finding the GREATER LOVE, for where the GREATER LOVE lies, lies the GREATER TRUTH!

Oh, CMN “engaged” you all right, to your utter “defeat,” when comparing your HUMANITY to his. For this MARVELOUS WORK AND A WONDER IS ALL ABOUT BEING HUMANE. And we saw yours and his, as two fires built on separate alters, one fire (YOURS, if it could be characterized as such) consumed by the FIRE of the TRUTH, as it REALLY is.

Oh, GD, that you could have shown your HUMANITY to CMN, instead of simply shaking his hands three times. (What’s UP with THAT?)

With LOVE and RESPECT,

Your friend and servant,

PBMAH

I will await your side bar comments.

Richard

I will post you on the side. The uniqueness of Julie’s persona and position keep her in world of flux, so much to swing at - you think she would be a professional batter. Tough spot being a DH for full time sponser.

The email/ attachment you sent was unique, I had heard pieces of it before but not that well put together - it read well. I will say, did I stop and rethink my position - well more than once….. but how, but how could they (persons in charge not know) if either side was knowledgeable of the other’s case - oh how it could of been different.

So the balance I will leave to a side bar.

GD

The Pow wow was good, I had 3 occasions to speak at a couple of minutes each to CMN, with everyone there listening. No shouting, no contention, just trying to make “defintions more clear”. I have no regrets going, it gave me a lot more insight. I shook his hand 3 times, had a couple of pieces of conversation but really unless he wanted to “engage”, he was a people person. So maybe next time…..

Does her statement stand up to be true?

I think not.

Just my two cents.

Richard

Remember what Julie said in comment # 170? She said:

>>>>>>If you believe in the LDS church, scriptures etc., then YOU believe in “Ministering angels”—the very same ones that appeared to J.Smith (upon which the LDS church was founded), as well as Lehi, Nephi, Abinadai, Samuel the Lamanite, Jonah, Paul, Alma the younger, etc., etc., and YES Christopher M. N.

They appear in EVERY instance a TRUE PROPHET OF GOD is called. That’s why you will NEVER hear of ANY PROPHET in the LDS Church (since J. Smith) EVER lay claim to a visitation from “angels”.

Christopher Nemelka makes no small claims, and something tells me this is only the beginning of the controversy that may ensue, for his book has only recently been published. It is written in the Bible, “Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good” (1Thess 5:21).

It seems that, currently, there are three books claiming to be the “Sealed Portion” available. Will there be more of such books coming forth in the future? We just don’t know yet. I must say that I rather agree with “add my witness hu” in his June 19 post, that the Sealed Portion will come forth before Christ’s second coming. Just from my experience of studying the Bible, and realizing the true meaning of prophecies… It seems that nearly all of the prophecies are for the end time, before the Millennium, and my view is that the words in Ether concerning the brother of Jared are no exception.

Now if I may quote another scripture: Jeremiah 33:3, “Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known.” I have found in my studies and pursuit in the Gospel that there are many truths which God has and is waiting for us to discover. It only takes for us to ask and use a little effort in seeking. James 4:2b.

And so whatever it is about Nemelka’s Sealed Portion, I guess… We will see if it stands the test of time. Perhaps this saying is fitting: “Whatever is true must ultimately cohere.” It is said that all prophets teach the same thing.

Sent you an email. Hope you got it.

Richard

Ah Ok. Just checking.

Can’t say that I have, in locations I have attended church - Four Corners, New Mexico / San Fernando Valley, CA / Ventura County, CA / South Riverside County, CA / North of Salt Lake, UT.

Misc. wards in each area.

GD

Just wondering if you ever heard of Bishop Koyle?

The date CMN had his temple fairytale meeting was June - 5, 16, 1987. 23 years would be next year. Maybe his clock is going to start where the other stopped.

Now this is my find, my hidden nugget of sealed crap.

Higher, and higher, baby.

He should be flying by then.

Getterdone

I like your post, maybe my post will get the Sealed Deputy back over here - I think I scared her off. The following is from a old church book I found back when, I have often enjoyed reading the books from 40 years back. There was alot more they would “say” back then.

In the Book the Rise and Fall of Nauvoo by B.H. Roberts printed 1965, Chapter 26 “ In peril among false brethren”

The winter was big with events affecting the destinies of Nauvoo. During that winter were set on foot the conspiracies which culminated in the destruction of Nauvoo. ……..…skip towards end of chapter……….. At this juncture Joseph requested of his brother Hyrum to take his family and go to Cincinnati. But Hryum demurred and said, “Joseph , I can’t leave you!” Joseph turning to a number of brethren present , said: “I wish I could get Hyrum out of the way , so that he may live to avenge my blood, and I will stay with you and see it out.” But Hyrum Smith was not the kind of man to leave his brother now that the hour of his severest trial had come upon him. His noble nature revolted at the thought, and though the Spirit had doubtless whispered Joseph that his life and that of Hyrum’s would be sacrificed in the impending crisis, his pathetic words, “Joseph, I can’t leave you!” bear testimony to the nobility of the soul that uttered them, and is a witness to the strength of those bonds of love that bound him to his younger brother. Moreover, in consequence of the Prophet’s premonitions of his approaching martyrdom, he had ordained his brother Hyrum to succeed him in the presidency of the Church; and hence this consideration as well as his affectionate regard for him as a brother doubtless led him to try to get Hyrum out of harm’s way.* - word for word from page 291.

*”If Hyrum had lived he would not have stood between Joseph and the Twelve, but he would have stood for Joseph. Did Joseph ordain any man to take his place? He did. Who was it? It was Hyrum. But Hyrum fell a martyr before Joseph did.” – Brigham Young, in a speech at the October conference at Nauvoo, 1844. In Times and Seasons, Vol. v.p.683.

Word was sent to Brigham Young, then on a mission in the eastern States, to return to Nauvoo, and to communicate with the other Apostles and request them also to return to Nauvoo, as likewise all Elders, and as many of the good, faithful men as felt disposed to accompany them, to assist the Saints.

THEN WAS THE LETTER FORM GOV. FORD, THEN WAS JOSEPH AND HYRUM AND THE OTHER CITY COUNCIL MEMEBRS WERE THEN TAKEN TO CARTHAGE JAIL.

There was no secret to the sucession Jospeh wanted, however it wasn’t said or declared in the Carthage Jail. The account of the last moments of the Carthage event was given in detail in the Times and Seasons soon after the event by Elder Willard Richards under the caption TWO MINUTES IN JAIL.
In the account everything was and has been detailed down to their footsteps, bullets, blood, etc. if CMN say’s they whispered it to each other in the jail cell, at had to of happened prior to the day of their death. And like that CMN’s story gets fanciful and his sealed creation.

With so many books on the subject, nothing of the sort was even remotely discussed prior or during the event. Not even a remote imply. Now if CMN would like to try again, maybe he could be Sidney Rigdon, Gov. Ford, or Gov. Boggs reincarnated. Because even the resurrection process still had to have Christ return for this to occur – all participating LDS members knew this well, and beyond the LDS members it was anyone who believes in the Bible.

So now CMN, Has Christ been here to redeem the dead?, Has the whole world seen him?, Has the book of revelations been fulfilled? (and not your silly fiction rewrite), Has the word of Joseph been completely fulfilled? – NO.

Seems like as with the CMN Sealed Portion and now his claim to be Hyrum – he is just crafting a story which is not timed right, and more stranger than fiction than –TRUE REALITY.

I hope this answers your media search, Richard, that came up empty earlier.

Christopher not only believe he is the re-incarnated Hyrum Smith..

but also:

Jacob, the son of Lehi, who was Zenos (who touched the heart of Lehi),

and

John the Baptist, the fore-runner of Christ, and also the author of what became one of the world’s most troubled religions (not to his intent),

and, finally, the servant spoken of by Isaiah through whom no man could become acceptable to Christ in the latter-days but through what he presented to the world–the true gospel of Jesus Christ as Christ intended it to be understood.

They hereby, declare that this single individual referred to by Isaiah was none other than Christopher Marc Nemelka, who was foreknown by his brother in the flesh, Joseph Smith, Jr., as Hyrum Smith.
*****************************************************************

So there ya have it.

In the Carthage Jail on June 27, 1844, in the presence of Willard Richards and John Taylor, and just a few moments before Joseph and Hyrum Smith were murdered, Joseph smiled upon his older brother Hyrum, took his hand and said, “One day it shall be you who finishes what I could not. May the Lord’s work be cut short in the righteousness of what you will do for him. I love you my brother, my friend.”

I have looked but I can not find this reference anywhere. Anyone else find it?

If the focus of the buzz of this portion of your website, was being copy and pasted to the “The Sealed Portion” group website on Yahoo. Would you speak up????

I could imagine that any interaction builds “internet paths” that which search engines delight in finding, I was even surprised to find my screen name in 3rd place on Google’s results to your site.

But here is the stumper, if your site contemplates the value of the Book of Mormon openly - yet I would think is still obvious scepticism of the Nemelka Sealed Portion version - if they were plagiarizing your site to theirs as the “added internet buzz or comments” which could be implied to support their claims - wouldn’t you say ENOUGH.

I could careless if you side with them, I could careless if you are adamantly against them - if I see your link or info on there website I see things in a whole new light. Now if ongoing and constant “C & P”’s (copy and pastes) are occurring wouldn’t and shouldn’t you say something? Especially if their PUBLIC RELATIONS DIRECTOR - JULIE TAGGERT is doing it - it may not be their sheriff doing it but it is one of his deputies.

So KC, I might be just a whim, I might be here for a long duration (not meaning your site but the fight for real truth) so what to do……. just for evidence here is the page repasted to your site:

JULIE TAGGARTS POSTING ON SEALED PORTIONS GROUP SITE - Julie’s email….”

I lifted this off another website but thought it was profound and beautiful and should be posted here…

“A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. And the fruit of a good tree bringeth froth the fruits of the spirit, which cause a man to love one another and do unto another that which he would have done unto him. And an evil tree causeth a man to set himself above another, and hate another, and causeth strife and contention, and all things contrary to the spirit of God.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is the exact post>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> except for this
Dear Random Observer,

I just “happened upon” your WORD this a.m. on loving our brother. It is “scripture” unto me.

How can I possess this love of which you speak?

With great respect and hope, I am …

Powered by Mind … but DESIROUS to be POWERED by LOVE ”

__._,_.___

Your Call KC - you can have the Nemelka Sealed subjects having their ‘con-foundation’ here too.

But your choice does affect who and how I send people here… THIS HASN’T BEEN THE FIRST TIME SHE HAS DONE IT!

But it is obvious things are HEATING up over there, you might want to join just to get a kick now and then.

Julie most Public Affairs directors have better tactics than this, grow some new techniques and give a pair to the “dude that looks like a lady”.

Could your family gang up and give you an Intervention, with 9 in the imediate mix you might want to prepare like Ida has. Toughness never won children back, but I guess he likes it.

Getterdone

“For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter watter; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil. Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and do do that which is evil continually. But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually…For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil”

As far as I see it, whether the analogy is used as a TREE, or weather the analogy is used as WATER, the message is the same…. That which is of God, causes people to love one another. That which is “of the devil” causes strife and contention, and all things contrary to the spirit of God…. and, as the words of Moroni say, THE WAY TO JUDGE IS PLAIN.

If a member of the Church, or any church, can come forth and say to the world: “This is false. For, indeed, it is the other way around. That which is of God causeth a man to hate one another, and causeth a man to set himself above another, to cause contention, strife, and all things that are good and of God,” then surely that is their God given right to hold such a belief, and declare such a thing, and claim it to be good, and of their god. But how then shall Moroni’s words, or Christ’s words, be proven false by those who would proclaim them as true?

For….”If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar”

“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Or, if a member of the Church, or any church, can come forth and say to the world “This is false. For, indeed, pure religion is something else. It is NOT to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction. This is not what the real pure religion is, but rather, some other thing,” then, again, that is their God given right to disagree, and define in their hearts, pure religion, as some other thing.

What then IS Pure Love?

What then IS Pure religion?

What then, is ANTI-Christ?

That which leads to loving one another, even as Jesus would…?

or..

That which leads to contention and disharmony…?

Therefore,

To prove Christopher Marc Nemelka and “his” “work” false, then, here it is for all the religious world.

Simply demonstrate that YOUR faith can cause MORE harmony in the human world. Lead people to MORE good, more love, more understanding, more compassion, more light, more empathy.

Bring forth TWO things

Your definition of Pure Love

Your definition of Pure Religion

Then tell us all…

With what type of Love should we fill our hearts…
And what type of religion should we practice…

If yours is the voice of Christ….your worlds shall ring true… Love others, even as I have loved you. Find the flaw in pure love, and find the flaw in pure religion, and supplant it with a greater love than pure love, and a religion more pure then pure religion.

Of all the religious experts in the entire world, are there ANY, even ONE, who would come forth to contend with such a pure love? If so, what shall be the love they possess that is greater than pure love? Then may whoever posses such a love let that love shine out, like a city set on a hill, full of peace, and the pure fruits of the spirit. Then you will surely have something that those who are searching for “righteousness” will be drawn to. Then we shall truly find a fountain that brings forth good living water, and not a fountain of bitter, dead water of a great lake of salt.

This is why, as far as the “Christian” world is concerned, ANY contempt, ridicule, or unkind things said to or about Christopher, in an attempt to discredit him or the work brought about through his efforts, shall only backfire. You cannot fight love with hate. Trying to fight love with hate, is like trying to fight fire with wood. You will only demonstrate that you have not pure love, but the spirit of contention. And if you have not love then how shall you know the mind or will of Christ? And if you not have the mind of will of Christ, then how shall we follow you in his stead? How then could such a person tell Christ how he should conduct his own work, and that his sheep should follow some other voice?

IF a person feels they are more rightfully called to “feed the sheep” of these later days than Christopher, and his efforts in presenting to the world the Sealed Portion, The Worldwide United Foundation, and the other books available through the work that he is such a stumbling block to :-), or if a person feels they can expose him as somehow an emissary of that which is NOT good, then surely they should have their shot.

But there is only ONE way to prove you have the “real Pure religion” and the “real pure love” and that, therefore, Christopher and his work is “false,” that Christopher “hath not charity” and is “nothing”…

that is to love him, love him so much that you would die before fighting, or holding him in contempt as an enemy. If you feel that he doesn’t love you as much as he should, then Love him MORE then he loves you.

IF you can do this, then perhaps YOUR love is more pure than his, and your wisdom therefore rooted in your peace and love for all mankind. Then shall his “treachery” be revealed. Not by you, but because of his own self demise, in comparison to your love.

But if you do NOT have this love for him, and all mankind in your heart, then what kind of love have you in your heart? If you would seek to be a disciple of Christ and live, or indeed even die, as a witness to him, his life, and his message, how then shall men know that ye are his disciple? Through your love one for another or though your hatred and contempt? Though your fire, or though your wood? Therefore, what shall your example say of him whose love was so pure that he gave his life rather then fight back?

This is why, in my estimation of what is good, of what is true, the ultimate message of Christ can be no other thing but to love others even as he loved them, and the ultimate standard by which all righteousness is measured is therefore the royal law of doing unto others as you would have done to you. That if you want to truly follow Christ, then fill your heart with the purest love there is, completely and fully immerse/wash/clean/purify/baptize yourself and heart in and with this “water of life,” fully immerse yourself in this “love,” in this “way” of treating others, and love Christopher Marc Nemelka, and ALL mankind (and woman kind :-)) even as you would love yourself. If you want to prove to the world that YOU, yourself, are not Anti-Christ, then love everyone, do good to all.

For how else can one become “one” with Christ if not through loving as he loved? Shall a man become one with Christ while he has contempt for a brother still in his heart? Then how could his servant, or one claiming to be, hold any man in contempt? How then could a man know anything of God and his ways unless he knows love for all mankind? For, is it not written that “If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar”?

Therefore…If a man say, I love God, by loving my brother… that man speaks true. For is it not written in the scriptures that “inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these, my brethren, ye have done it unto me”? And “when ye are in the service of your fellow being ye are only in the service of your god”?

Therefore, we can reasonably conclude…

When ye are in the service of hating and disparaging a brother, ye are only in the service of hating and disparaging your god. But when ye are in the service of loving and respecting your brother, and being kind, and doing good unto him, and turning unto him the other cheek, and forgiving him, showing that your love for him is greater then the vendetta of vengeance he feels he has against you, ye are only in the service of loving and serving your god.

For….

By their fruits (of the spirit perhaps) ye shall know them.

Does it lead to love, or contention? And the way to judge is plain…that which is good leads men to loving others even as Christ would. And if there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

And I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ amen

And now, for the closing hymn

As I have loved you
love one another

This new commandment
love one another

By this shall men know
Ye are my disciples

If ye have love one to another

And getterdone, if you want to correspond with me personally you or anyone in the Internet world for that matter can feel free email me at this address–

antinephilehiquaker@gmail.com

But, in all complete honesty, I’m just some random person. Or as my great grandpa as quoted by my grandma in quoting the people of the south, used to say, “And that am the truth and that am the gospel.”

“For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night. For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged. Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.”

What kind of silly information is that, I mean are you getting the Senior discount at the Library and Sizzler???

And after you ditched out on your husband, how many of your kids support your ‘work’? How many sealed presents have become white elephants - or comparable to the Sears catalogue when something needs wiped?

And like you seem not to understand, its not like they refuse, my extended family think CMN is clown in his circus, and my wife and two daughters have better things to do. You have to realize this is like a hobby to me, like picking up garbage or being a good Samaritan or helping out the needy or donating time for red cross or DOING ANTHING TO CLEAN UP MY WORLD, that someday my daughters will have to deal with (3 yrs ans 2 yrs) and I am born in 75 - Younger brighter faster cleaner hands - when are you going to catch on.

Drink some Ensure the Big day, it will help you stay awake. Granny share some with the ponytail prophet he might need some more pep.

What are your measurements, do you color your hair?

Can I prophesy some about you Julie??? - Try this on - For every child of yours that ‘disowns’ you because of your choice to embrace CMN over your family - You will spend their lives and their kids lives in eternity trying to make up for it - this is part of ‘hell’ of the mind you will be faced with trying to help them with out you having a body. 8 kids times their kids until you ‘right the wrong’, is a dreary way to spend eternity trying to make amends. You might someday before you past, see why it is so amazing to be sealed to your family, you all become a “family tree” part in the ground giving strength and foundation to the branches and fruit in the portion above - and eventually they will be part of the ‘larger’ tree of life which brings you back to be with them in the millennium.

Getterdone

I can see why your wifey and family refuse to appear at your side at that meeting!!

Like I said……………………………

There still will be a split in the mountain…. Keep in mind there is a different entrance and exit, a process in effect….. so much CMN wouldn’t understand. So many back up plans, but I so want this cleaned up out of my backyard and wrapped up in Old Jerusalem - lots things need to happen there too

Because your ‘mind’s real estate’ and the ‘processes you commit to’ or my favorite the ’status of your streamer’ - which is like unto your antenna to Heaven’s connection. All of these will be elements of Real Reality - not a book, not a philosophy, just how your life on earth gets categorized when looked at in summary of a person’s choices.

I sort of chuckled with CMN’s CD theory of your recorded experiences, trust me direct connect is and always has been how those in communication with Heaven get things back and forth, and you don’t have to see Beings or use special stones to know this - for even Joseph once he learned to use the spirit (Holy Ghost) he used the U&T very little. You wonder why person’s haven’t been seen from Heaven visiting LDS headquarters after him - if the connection is in good working order - Why waste ‘gas’?

Why and how do you think, your eyes are like windows into your souls or windows from heaven - If you are a participating temple (vessel) - you become an instrument in Heaven’s hands - even a witness to the things ‘hidden from view’ (secret combinations). You think there wouldn’t be extra features built into our human bodies? It will take years for science and medicine to fully understand. But current reality is 2 persons acting as witnesses for Heaven, they would be unstoppable as the Bible says, for Heaven could protect them and guide them from all things sent to stop them (and then give it back to the attackers).

My biggest fear for you Julie, is how you are going to say this MWAW invented by CMN is more important than your 4 kids, who probably could use a full time mom! If there was a line or persons knocking down the doors to be part of CMN’s MWAW or to be on WUFfy’s vessel, maybe you could say it was the fame.

My insights I like to give away especially in testimony meeting, you would be surprised how some of the more subtle tests really show your worth to Heavenly Father.

Chris Handyman - a carpenter by nature

Getterdone

Since your itchy little finger couldn’t wait for Random Observer to respond I guess I will give you my rebuttal:

There is a difference from Ministering Angels and Advanced Beings, for angels are servants of Gods or those who reach celestial glory hence Moroni was an angel he served Heavenly Father - Heavenly Father being an ‘Advanced Being’ - somebody with complete knowledge of the earth forwards and backwards.

CMN fanciful reinterpretation of Revelations is about as good as the Sears catalogue when it first came out because it was a step up corn cobs. With out having Sealed the deal on his first fictional work it is pretty far fetched I would even consider it other than a ‘wiping method’. You wait and see, Julie if two witnesses were clearly seen then there will be two witnesses clearly seen by the world - it just doesn’t happen because CMN makes up another ending!!! I thought John was talking to CMN, he is agreeing to this???

Be- care-full Julie if I wasn’t aloud to speak, who then would - do you really think CMN would just dance right in without no one noticing, That is where I said it was easy to see him coming up the same mountain I had already climbed. You think really, I mean really really CMN was that special - if it was meant to be, then surely he would of been forewarned of the opposition of trying to reroute the future.

You want to know the answer to your question, how with out sin can anything be done???? Where you think Satan get his focus from….. If Heavenly Father wants you tried to your wits end, do you think he is going to make you deaf, dumb, and blind??? No he is going to give you your free agency, you are Human do what your level of knowledge permits you to do. Now if I was an Apostle there is another story, and better yet if I was a Prophet - there are levels to your adherence to his ‘higher laws’ - the more you know the more is expected of you. My knowledge is what is in MY LIFE not what fanciful glowing beings have told me - this is me - and no one else. SO there it is, until I get rerouted or reprimanded then I will pursue a course to use the same vocabulary and grammar as my opponent - CMN.

And why don’t you prophesy up some refreshments there at the Pow wow, I mean Sizzler is cool and all but how much could you really bear of the ‘chosen aura’ - I mean even the close ones have been ‘cut’ so many times how could they not expect a personal slap down with his M.O - I bet he is fun with a couple of drinks in him though, Is he going to drink any at Sizzler??? I might want to join in that adventure!!!

And compassion smassion, all I want is a straight answer in Today’s Real Current Reality - not his book nonsense, not his semantics of Advanced Beings, I want just his SL Weekly kind of answers - just raw and himself.

And as far as my family, I already told you Julie - they are in my heart and I will keep them out of this, as best as I can. If they want to see ‘The Greatest Marvelous Work and Wonder Show on Earth’ then I will bring them to the circus to see the ring leader - CMN (you know his birthday is the same as Charles Ringling!)

I really sometimes get tired with your nonsense Julie, if you want to speak for CMN or quote him or be in the same boat as him - then stick with it, quit going back and forth, you are going to wear out the hinges. You tout your position like you have a grip on the sickle, with your presented knowledge yet, you don’t answer or fix the holes. Maybe it is part of the job position qualifications? What was your score on the Test?

And for me, Who I really am, I posted a lot in my last post - you think it is fake then you in for a BIG surprise. I am not there to tout my story, I am there to ask my questions, if CMN wants a show down then I have a lot more than just questions to bring with me - So Miss Public Affairs Director do you want to make this about me and him, or do you want to tone down your britches and let me ask my questions?

If you want a show down, it would be semi-appropriate to at least give notice so I can gather some “collateral” damage together to be present, there is alot to pick through in CMN history - even if he thinks, this is all about the Sealed Portion - it is amazing what past ‘close’ acquaintances have to say about his ‘Story’.

But really Julie do you want to have the meeting I wanted to have a long time ago, that you backed out of or do you want to let CMN have his Pow wow for his supporters. I am planning to wait my turn, like everyone else and be respectful - If he wants more excitement - then say so, I can really bring this to a higher level - you just need to be specific (email me on the side, I could even dress up as Dark Vader or something or bring anti-smiley face ballons)

Tough choice here Julie, but really how many ex friends in CMN’s life wouldn’t want to see him squirm, and put together a new way out of Human Reality??

So there it is Julie, go back to you flock, get your peps ready. And don’t answer out of turn. Don’t forget birthdays???

Its not Hampton, I like Hasselhoff now. And some internet predator hunting, on the side.

Getterdone

They appear in EVERY instance a TRUE PROPHET OF GOD is called. That’s why you will NEVER hear of ANY PROPHET in the LDS Church (since J. Smith) EVER lay claim to a visitation from “angels”.

If you would read TSP you would know that the “Two Witnesses” (one of whom you ridiculously claim to be) is nothing more than the Bible and the Book of Mormon, which “lie dead in the streets” in their black leather [book] jackets because no one is abiding by their precepts— found in Matthew 5,6, & 7 and 3 Nephi 12,13 & 14….

…Do unto others what you would have them do unto you, LOVE your enemies, do good to those who despitefully use you and persecute you, etc., etc.

Now Getterdone…go reread all the posts you “saved” and count (since you love numbers) how many times you violated the gospel of Jesus, the Christ (found in the matthew and 3 Nephi)…

and then ask yourself…How the Heck could God call upon ME to do anything for HIM when HE said, “I cannot tolerate sin with the LEAST DEGREE of allowance”.

I’ll “prophesy” this Mr. Getterdone–Chris Hampton, if you don’t FIRST read “The Sealed Portion–the Final Testament of Jesus Christ” (like Moroni said 10:4) and still insist on speaking up –you will go slinking away from that Seminar like a dog with your tail between your legs embarrassed and laid bare before the “world”.

I know Christopher will have compassion on you because of your mental instability (and because of who HE IS) but I surely would not want to be you in the presence of the ONE TRULY CALLED AND CHOSEN.

But hey, be sure and bring all your family and friends…you can take their number and have even more time to expose yourself for who you REALLY ARE!!

I shouldn’t think the rest of you—believers or not— would want to miss that show (down)!!

First, who are you?, obviously you really are not random, because why would you care? And sure, maybe it is just being curious, but like I told Julie - I will go through all my questions if she fixes the holes/ questions as they come.

And I guess that isn’t a priority to her, so my reasoning is to let as many of them out at the Pow wow as I can.

Like the first question I presented, if the sealed protion is so closely ‘linked’ to Christ, and the WUFfy site is so closely ‘linked’ to the Sealed Portion/ MWAW group and other written works then WHY not put Christ’s name on the WUFfy site. Even if the majority of the world doesn’t have a conviction in Christ then so what, give credit to where credit is due - At least be up front - if it is a good plan that will work on it own, then you should be at least be honest enough to say where and how it came about. Have enough worth to stand up for Jesus Christ, I mean unless you have chosen to stand before someone else at Judgement day?? Is CMN giving out numbers for this?

So long and short - Julie needs to step up, being that she is the PUBLIC AFFAIRS DIRECTOR - put a disclaimer on the site, change the site to show the ‘real foundation’ behind it, or just admit your just not on the same side as Jesus Christ - I’d accept any of these choices.

And since I like to stir the pot, Here you go Random Observer: Julie close your eyes….

If Advanced Beings came to earth, and had enough where abouts and inteligence to take on Human Form, or manipulate a Human Mind - i.e CMN, or were advanced enough to set all the events in motion for CMN to fall into place for being a spokes person for them - would it not be just understood that the Advanced Beings would also have an intimate knowledge of the events in the Earth’s history and future (to us anything beyond present is future,and know one knows the future beyond persons in Heaven - Jesus, God, and the HG).

So Advanced Beings would also know that their role in “affecting” the Earth’s events is foreordained to happen, they HAVE to do their part, so the future they saw will come to past.

So here is the meaty questions -
Was Joseph when he “regifted” the plates to CMN an Advanced Being?
Or was it an Advanced Being in disguise as Joseph?
Was Moroni & Mormon Advanced Beings? - it would be perceived they knew the future beyond “their presnt time.”
Was Jesus an Advanced Being?
Was God as the burning bush an Advanced Being?
Was God when he touched the stones of Jared, an Advaned Being then?
Was Budha an Advanced Being?
Was Mohammad an Advanced Being?
Is John the Revelator an Advaned Being? Are the 3 Nephites Advanced Beings? I think you can see the process here, Who is and who isn’t an Advanced Being(s)?

With that part settled out of the selectees, Who do they represent? Themselves?, Elohim?, Persons from another planet? With out making it sound like Star Wars - Are they all on the same side? (working for the same goal? or same end result with regards to the Earth’s life?)

Now that we have who and what side they are on, If CMN was chosen by one or two of the Advanced Beings belonging to one of the groups - Then how many other pesons have been chosen? Especially in the past?

Better yet, if all this is making sense still, wouldn’t you think they are persons on this Earth with a likely hood they will be chosen after CMN is done spinning his wheels - I mean it is apparent CMN is still getting older, and his work isn’t rolling forth like an unstoppable stone, and CMN hasn’t selected a sealed off portion succesion team to continue his work (like Apostles and GA, etc.)

So think for a minute CMN has gotten ‘his season/ moment’ in the Bible history (since there will be 12 persons, Jesus will spend a time with in their seasons) so if I see it right CMN is either the 6th or 9th in the sequence of chosen ones. And brighter and younger canidates are being born every day - which don’t beleive in some silly make belive Beings giving CMN some stones which don’t even match the description Joseph’s Mother described them as (you should read her Journal). So I digress,

The gist of the Questions here are - Who, When, Why, Where, and How are Advanced Beings in existance. If they have chosen so many persons in history to make “affecting” changes, why would they stop at CMN? - this provided they really exist?

And then if CMN isn’t the Moses figure meant to lead the LDS church back to Jackson County for Elohim’s temple - then someone is still out there waiting for their “Chosen Opportunity” and obviously more put together than CMN to “get this done”.

Its hard to see it, I know, but younger, brighter, faster, and with cleaner hands - these persons exist - a million fold to CMN’s best of ‘list’ members. Hey, its possible even some might have come unto him asking simple questions, and just stuck around long enough to make sure the WUFfy vessel gets far enough out to sea to make sure it is a one way ticket for them who deny Christ, and to get the simply confused ones off before it sets off.

Yes CMN does serve a purpose, even Satan gets used in his end, tricky devil tring to pull one over on Heavenly Father.

So there you have it, since CMN ‘invented’ the Advanced Being approach to being ‘Chosen’, there is a lot to be questioned. And histories brightest minds hadn’t tossed this one out there, they might of had some pretty fanciful visions and les happen to them BUT not Advanced Beings (unless CMN will go on record to say Jesus and Elohim were his Advanced Beings then Joseph qualifies too).

And with out asking to much maybe, CMN could check out the sealed plates for the Pow wow. My favorite would be CMN guessing the numbers on my dollar bills, with him using the U & T, or better who should go to Wendover and bet BIG - at least then he might get more donations coming in.

Maybe if having both stones there is to risky then bring just one, or just some paper rubbings from the sealed portion of the plates. I mean if this was all going to be done by him alone, like with ‘no other kinds of witnesses’ invloved. Why take a picture of the U & T and post it on his group site? …. Why let other people see them in the first place?….

I am widdling down my questions,got to stop, ..BUT if for some reason he kicks me out or won’t let me in or I can’t get all the good questions asked. Then I will make a thorough list and post it on a couple of sites after.

Julie,
Are you going to record the Pow wow, or do a transcript? I have some suggestions, if you want some ideas

Getterdone
Chris H. - I always thought unique when my wife and Mom had the same name, like Jesus did (even have an Elizabeth - sister too). My initals C P H - 3 16 …8 - like in John 3:16. One came to the Jews, One will come to the LDS. I came from the the Four Corners, even though I always thought it should of been Four Quarters. My past employment even had coincidental names giving clues. But you know through all of this I still am NOT Jesus, but I give all my life and soul to him - It’s more like happy to be his brother than reincarnation (like peas in a pod) My favorite was when I shook Ezra Taft Benson’s hand (in LA,CA), NOW there was some electricity - odd some one right in the same time frame, broke the hand of Christ off his staute in the visitors center….

I just want the truth to come out, more the better - and since CMN swings a ‘big sickle’ might as well get warmed up for the Big show to come. Did I meantion, I feel I was chosen to be one of the two witnesses -

My other unique insight - we live in the Great Basin of North America - its roughly heart shaped, There is Great Heart also just a tour away to see it(I have a funny History there too) ‘like a split in the mountain’. Zion is where the pure in Heart are, The winter Olympic motto - ‘light the fire within’, and my favorite - God took Enoch and his city of Zion into his bosom, and yes SLC is a Mirror image of Jeruselam. The bottom less pit - like a whole in your heart - Kennecott - and yes Rio Tinto means red river
I lived for many years on the 33.33.33 lattitude which also goes through the Sea of Galiee (Jesus concluded his work when he was 33 - and even Rolling Rock salutes 33)The List of My Life goes on and on my whole life, not silly Beings BUT REAL LIFE, I always thought how many coincidences, or synergies, or les till I should belive what I should do????

Well I think the darkest hour is ready to come, Heavenly Father just needed to have the recipe just a bit more certain before it will come out just perfect. And yes Julie when you have climbed the same mountain CMN is trying to do now, it is sometimes easy to see the things that don’t fit - or just make you see things with out any stones in my eyes

And yes pardon the spelling errors, the federal government doesn;t have spell check on these computers - I am just happy being simple liek that.

And yes anyone can have special things happen to them, just keep a personal Journal (and keep it private) and prove your desire to commit to Christ at all odds - even lossing your life for him - for there will you find a new one.

Getterdone - some of my pearls

Getterdone, out of curiosity, what are the questions you have for Christopher that, if answered, you would, as you say, perhaps pick up a copy and read the sealed portion and/or invest your full mental focus to the whole book?

Regards

However, it wouldn’t be the first time I was accused of posing as CMN—just ask JJ (or “Richard” as he likes to be called here).

If you want your questions answered personally by CMN then come to the seminar and take a number.

Or stay home and watch football.

Julie,

Come on Julie was it CMN writing in your posting or not????

I want to ask if you would, please consider this request….. Please when you quote the The Sealed Portion would you add: TSP - then book - then chapter - then verse (or page number) - so I can find them in context in the TSP

Did you get your confirmation from CMN’s test with his re-mixer of Matthew, I mean you posted during the test, did you just not care or what?

And did I understand that Joseph and CMN met up, so if Joseph says he can’t leave Arizona did CMN go to him??

Richard,
Your post was right on the money, but it goes to show CMN’s back and forth to how he is right and EVERYONE else is wrong.

Random Observer,
After/ If CMN answers my questions, then maybe I’ll pick up a copy and read it. When I downloaded his book from his website months ago, it is write/ print protected so I have to be glued to my monitor to read it. And personally I like reading away from the glowing screen.

SO there it is, CMN answers the questions I have and I am able to dismiss the obvious disbelief in the translation he claims - then yes I would invest my full mental focus to his whole book, other wise football season is starting and way more important in comparison currently.

Maybe even the September 6th appearance of my hero in Wendover, you know I liked the name - and at one time I was in the call back list of Comcast technicians to do personal interviews. I thought it might be interesting being a cable guy, but they only get $12 to start. Tough to feed the ankle biters with that.

Chris “Half Fast” Translation, LLAME, INC. - No charge, it’s his, pre show gift

Getterdone

Judas’s Juggernauts? Who is being compared to Judas as a traitor of the Christ? Even after Judas betrayed the Christ.. he was so remorseful and sickened by what he had done.. that he committed suicide. Or are we going to find out that there was no Judas either? No Moses.. no Judas.. hey.. maybe no Christ either?

What’s next?

Oh, how I LOVE being proved right!!!

Be sure and hook up with Harry Dschakk and JJ Dewey (aka Richard).

You can share all your “the world(and CMN)-done-me-wrong” sob stories, criticize, conspire, judge, and disparage everyone on your own website called…

Judas’ Juggernauts

Happy trails to you!!

From one of the “worst people”.

PS. I have NEVER received a NICER compliment!!

Yes.. this was written by CMN.. but it was copied and pasted into this venue. He obviously wrote it at some point but you can tell by the style of writing that he is not speaking to anyone in particular… least of all as an answer in this forum. This was a “general” answer.

If he were posting it directly here.. you would have seen the “uglier” side of him come out.

Or were you touched like No Balls to write for CMN too?

I am just tingling to think CMN takes a leave of absence from his groupies to come sickle fight with Richard and maybe me too?

Chris Hoola

Each founder of these religious movements was called by God, anciently and modernly, as a prophet, and instructed to give the members of his church the “Higher Laws” of God, which both groups subsequently rejected. Therefore, each was instructed to give the people a “Lower Law” of sacrifices, ordinances, endowments, Sabbaths, assemblies, higher and lower priesthoods, baptisms, laws, precepts, and doctrines, etc., that the people could accept and live by that would point them in the general direction of the gospel of Jesus Christ. In other words, these “Lower Laws” would point them towards the “Higher Law,” which is the law of the gospel that Jesus Christ taught.

In The First Vision given to Joseph Smith (the modern prophet) as a young man, Jehovah specifically compares the two prophets in no uncertain terms:

Quote:
28 And thou shalt lead those that listen to thy words like my servant Moses led those of the house of Israel, and give unto them my words as thou receivest through me, like unto Moses and Aaron. But the Gentiles shall reject thee, as did the Israelites the law that Moses brought down unto them, that they might have known me and the Father who sent me unto them.

29 And thou shalt be commanded to give unto them a lower law of ordinances and sacrifice like unto those which Moses gave unto the rebellious house of Israel, who would not hear my words from my own mouth, but wanted that they be given unto them through Moses.

30 And when they rejected me and trusted more in the arm of the flesh than they did in me, I took the plainness of my gospel from among them and allowed them to be led according to their own desires, which were unrighteous before God. And they did stumble exceedingly because of their wickedness.

31 And the fullness of my gospel was among them, but they did not understand it, trusting more in their fleshly ordinances and the sacrifices that pointed them towards this gospel.

After the two different religious groups had rejected the fullness of the gospel (Higher Laws), they were persecuted, hated, hunted, and led into captivity by the nations of the world. Each group finally found a place (Jerusalem, anciently/Salt Lake City, modernly) where they could build a temple to their god (it took 40-plus years in each case) and be led in doctrine and precept by their worldly priests, prophets, seers, General Authorities, scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees, being protected by the Roman and United States governments respectively.

These two groups corrupted the “Lower Laws” for many years and “strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant; they seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image in the likeness of the world.” (D&C 1:15–16) In time, a lowly member of each of these churches was prepared to come forth, leave these churches, be seen as an apostate, be given the power and authority to confound the doctrines and precepts of men that crept into these churches, and give the “light” of the TRUE gospel in its fullness by instituting the work of the Father in each of their respective time periods. One was fittingly named by his parents, Joshua—he who took the Israelites into the land of promise when Moses could not (loosely translated incorrectly as Jesus)—who became known as the Christ (the anointed one); the other was appropriately named by his earthly parents: Christopher, or in other words, A Bearer of Christ.

Jehovah further reveals to Joseph Smith in The First Vision:

Quote:
35 And then shall the Father put forth His hand for the last time upon the earth and begin to gather the wheat from among the tares, and cause the tares that they shall be bundled together, and the wheat shall be gathered into the barn where it shall be safe from the fire which shall soon come to consume this world, destroying the churches and doctrines of them who teach falsehoods and lead the children of men away from the Father.

36 And when the work of the Father commenceth upon this earth, then shall the light of my gospel once again shine forth its light that those who shall see it might follow it into the barn of the Lord, where they shall be safe.

37 And there shall be one like unto you, who shall be the last, who shall be called forth to give unto the Gentiles the fullness of my gospel as I gave it unto the Jews.

38 And he shall not be like unto Moses, but he shall be like unto me, having my countenance upon him for the sake of the work of the Father.

39 And he shall do that which I have done, and preach against the religions of men and their doctrines, calling upon all men to repent and come unto me and be saved.

40 And there shall be many that shall receive the words that he shall give unto them which have been prepared to come forth in their fullness. And these words shall come forth from thy own works, which shall be given unto thee in mine own time, as thou shalt be prepared.

41 And his work shall testify of thy work, and thy words shall testify of his words, giving unto the children of men the testimony of two, that the fullness of my gospel might come forth to prepare the world for my coming.

The above has been given to reiterate the fact that the Jews and the Mormons are those who give pious credence to the so-called “Law of Witnesses,” and unfortunately do not understand this law and why it was given in the first place. Both had the chance to live the higher law of the gospel, but were given instead (because of their inability to live these higher laws) a law of symbolic ordinances and hidden understandings. Further, all of the above has been given so that it might be known and understood that he who is about to explain it to them in plainness is following in the footsteps of his friend and protégé, Jesus Christ, whose name he bears.

The law is first mentioned in Deuteronomy 17:

Quote:
1 Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God.

2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,

3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;

4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:

5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

Wow! The God of the Old Testament sure seems to be an austere God, who is arrogant and prideful and doesn’t want ANYONE worshipping or thinking about ANYTHING but Him, right? Wrong!

Moses taught the people allegorically and symbolically. He did NOT command the people to literally carry out the things that are written in the Old Testament. In fact, Moses didn’t write ONE WORD of the Old Testament—NOT ONE! ALL the Old Testament books that are credited to Moses refer to Moses in the third person. Why? Because they weren’t written by him. These books were written by unwise and foolish leaders around the time that King Solomon took the reigns of the Israelite nation and set his scribes to task to consolidate all the rumors, speculations, myths, and stories that had been passed down verbally from generation to generation. This same thing took place at the time of the council of Nicea, which took the Christian “rumors, speculations, myths, and stories that had been passed down verbally from generation to generation” and formulated them into what the world now accepts as the New Testament.)

Moses, the progenitor of the Israelite nation, did not write ONE word himself and pass it down, nor did Jesus Christ, the progenitor of the Christian nation. After they were dead, many gave witness to what they “thought” they had heard them say. These “thoughts,” more often than not, were NOT what was actually said or meant, but were what the leaders of the Jews and the council of Nicea WANTED THEM to say and mean, thus transforming the “rumors, speculations, myths, and stories that had been passed down verbally from generation to generation” into the current doctrines that existed in the minds of the leaders in Solomon’s time (the Old Testament authors) and the leaders in Constantine’s time (the New Testament authors).

The Israelite leaders wanted the people to be subjected to laws that were so controlling and restrictive in nature, that there was little leeway for an uprising or a rebellion against the priesthood leaders; thus they changed allegories, symbolism, ordinances, and the lower laws, into the literal “killing” of men, women, and children who failed to follow the leaders’ council and doctrine.

In the presentation of the guarded endowment given to the members of the LDS Church in their temples, there were “penalties” given that symbolically represented different ways in which “life could be taken.” In other words, the participants in the LDS endowment would act as if they were slitting their own throats, cutting out their hearts, and disemboweling themselves if they ever revealed what was given to them in the temple endowment. Was this given literally? No! But because of the foolishness of the leaders (who do not know why these things were given in the endowment in the first place), they allowed the people to believe this, keeping them in fear of speaking of the endowment outside of the esoteric circles of the LDS Church. However, there were some apostate groups that took the meaning literally, and actually cut the throats of members of their groups that rebelled against their doctrines and precepts. Finally, the LDS leaders had dealt with enough problems with the presentation of the “penalties” that they eliminated them all together from the presentation of the temple endowment.

(For a full explanation of what the penalties and ALL of the symbols of the LDS temple endowment mean, read Sacred, not Secret—the Official Guide in Understanding the LDS Temple Endowment.)

Because of the LDS leaders’ lack of knowledge and true revelation, they had no idea what they were doing when they eliminated such a vital part of the presentation of the endowment to the people. Had they the inspiration and proper understanding of the “penalties,” they would have realized that they were purely symbolic in nature and given to teach a beautiful concept of truth in the overall plan that the Father has established for His children upon this earth.

___________________

What does all of this have to do with the Law of Witnesses?

Deuteronomy 17 is “gravely” misunderstood, just as the modern LDS endowment “penalties” are “grossly” misunderstood. Their TRUE meaning brings to light the gospel teachings that are necessary for a person’s eternal salvation.

Let’s put it plainly now, so that ALL, even the least among us, can understand:

Quote:
1 Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God.

If ya don’t go ahead an’ follow the Father’s plan in its fullness, i.e., if ya aint gonna love another as you’d have ‘em love ya, it’s perty much an “abomination” in the eyes of God and will keep ya from having the opportunity to live with others on an eternal planet with an eternal body because yer gonna cause problems there.

Quote:
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,

3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;

4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:

5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Again, if ya aint gonna love yer neighbor as yerself, ya aint ready to live in a society of kin forever; therefore, y’all, yur gonna suffer the second death by not being allowed to be resurrected into an eternal body. That’s why ya take yur kin to the “gates” (symbolic of not let ‘em enter into the great city, which is the kingdom of God) and ya keep ‘em away from eternal life, which is perty darn much like getin’ stoned ‘til ya die.

Quote:
6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Y’all been given two or three witnesses of whatcha have to do to enter the gate: prophets tell ya, God tells ya through the Holy Ghost, and even Jesus Christ himself came down and taught ya everathin’ ya need ta know. Dats why yur gonna get kept out of the gate and “die;” ‘cause ya went again’ any two of the three witnesses that yer given to get through the gate.

IF ya just hear it from a prophet, that don’t mean nothin’ unless the Holy Ghost goes on ahead and confirms it to yer soul. If ya hear it in yer head and think it’s the Holy Ghost, but it isn’t confirmed by the words of the prophets, then don’t believe it, cause yer speaking hogwash to yourself. Even if ya hear it from the Great Granddaddy of us all, ya still have ta take it to heart, believe it through the spirit nature that ya all are, and accept both of these witnesses, not one, mind ya, but two, before ya can be let in through the pearly gates.

Quote:
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

And once yer condemned cause ya didn’t accept anything you were taught, and ya weren’t nice to others as ya wanted them to be nice to ya all, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are gonna have their way with ya; and then the rest of us, yer dear kin, are gonna realize that the Three Witnesses have gone and done ya right, because we don’t want ya around us treating us like dirt forever.

___________________

A wonderful Baptist lady who received and gained a strong testimony of The Sealed Portion before she knew anything about Mormonism of the LDS Church (therefore, knew nothing of the Jewish or the Mormon “Law of Witnesses”), posted a question on an Internet discussion group asking for guidance. Of course, an LDS member answered her (incorrectly, but still answered her) in an attempt to enlighten her on the subject:

The LDS man mentions the following scripture and the lady responds below:

LDS-Carl writes: “2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

(My words: Yep, that ol’ feller Paul, he sure had a way with the words of Moses. I guess he didn’t quite understand they aint Moses’ words. Maybe that’s why he and Peter, James, and John didn’t take a liken to each other most of the time; ‘cause Peter, James, and John REALLY knew Christ in the flesh, and Paul was still hangin’ on to the doctrine that the council of Nicea thought was the “good ol’ wine.” Just maybe, I’m a hankerin’ here, that’s why they included more of Paul’s words in their New Testament than they did anybody else’s! smiling smiley)

Then Ms. Baptist does a little confounding of her own on LDS-Carl’s incorrect understanding:

Quote:
Thanks Carl. …I saw the scripture you mentioned, but that surely can’t be a “Law of witnesses” not if you take it in context. …I haven’t looked yet in the Mormon one, but if this is the scripture that person is referring to (that wanted proof that Chris received the gold plates), I think it’s taken out of context. I also know the one in the OT, about putting people to death without witnesses, but that too would be taking it out of context, imo. How many times have we been told that you cannot just grab a verse out of the bible and apply it to whatever you desire, because it would have different meanings?
(Email correspondence, May 27, 2005.)

In the Book of Mormon, Nephi sees that the old law is reestablished to some degree to testify of the record that he and his father were preparing for the latter days:

Quote:
2 Nephi 27

12 Wherefore, at that day when the book (the plates) shall be delivered unto the man of whom I have spoken, the book (the plates) shall be hid from the eyes of the world, that the eyes of none shall behold it save it be that three witnesses shall behold it, by the power of God, besides him to whom the book shall be delivered; and they shall testify to the truth of the book and the things therein.

13 And there is none other which shall view it, save it be a few according to the will of God, to bear testimony of his word unto the children of men; for the Lord God hath said that the words of the faithful should speak as if it were from the dead.

Here Nephi specifically states that ONLY three shall be given the privilege to testify to the world of the gold plates. These plates include the sealed portion, as the “book” that Nephi was referring to is all of the plates prepared by Mormon and Moroni. “None other” shall see the plates except for the “few” other witnesses to which the Lord commanded Joseph Smith to show the plates.
D&C 5:10–15 reiterates precisely of what Nephi prophecies in his writings:

Quote:
10 But this generation shall have my word through you;

11 And in addition to your testimony, the testimony of three of my servants, whom I shall call and ordain, unto whom I will show these things, and they shall go forth with my words that are given through you.

12 Yea, they shall know of a surety that these things are true, for from heaven will I declare it unto them.

13 I will give them power that they may behold and view these things as they are;

14 And to none else will I grant this power, to receive this same testimony among this generation, in this the beginning of the rising up and the coming forth of my church out of the wilderness—clear as the moon and fair as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners.

15 And the testimony of three witnesses will I send forth of my word.

In Ether, chapter 5, Moroni gives further testimony and explanation of the “three witnesses” of the plates:

Quote:
2 And behold, ye may be privileged that ye may show the plates unto those who shall assist to bring forth this work;

3 And unto three shall they be shown by the power of God; wherefore they shall know of a surety that these things are true.

4 And in the mouth of three witnesses shall these things be established; and the testimony of three, and this work, in the which shall be shown forth the power of God and also his word, of which the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost bear record — and all this shall stand as a testimony against the world at the last day.

In the book of Ether, Moroni is referring to the entire set of “plates,” which included the sealed portion that he had already written before he wrote his final words and placed them upon the words of his father, Mormon, which “final words” were included in the “unsealed” portion of the plates. He makes it perfectly clear that there will only be “three” witnesses who will be commanded to give their testimony by having Moroni appear to them and show them the plates. Having Moroni show the plates was important, because it proved to Oliver, David, and Martin that Joseph Smith did not make the plates with his own hands, as one might claim if Joseph Smith or I would have shown the plates to another without a heavenly manifestation of an resurrected Being.

Moroni goes on to further state the importance of receiving a testimony from the source of all truth—the Holy Ghost.

Many will mock The Sealed Portion, which will come to the world from my hands, because they will demand that there be witnesses. I am not sure what part of “None other” and “the testimony of three” they do not understand. Nevertheless, there have been those who have seen the plates in my possession, but they are not commanded, as were the “three” and the other “eight” to give their testimony to the world. IF they do, that is their own doing, but they have already been told that their persecutions will increase considerably, and their lives would be in danger as mine will be. No commandment keeps them from telling the world what they have seen, only prudence and common sense.

Yet, it should be clear to a reasonably intelligent person, that even if one saw the plates, it would not necessarily mean that he or she would believe the translation of them. This testimony can only come from the Spirit as a person reads the translation.

All of the “special witnesses” turned against Joseph Smith eventually and became his bitter enemies. I have enough enemies without adding to them because some “unbeliever” doesn’t have the humility or won’t take the time to read the translation of The Sealed Portion (that I have been commanded to give to the world) and gain a testimony of it from God.

They will know in due time, when the Lord presents the plates to the world, flanked by the brother of Jared, Mormon, Moroni, Joseph, and myself to bear witness to the world of what we were commanded to do.

If a person wants “three witnesses” of this work, then he or she should ask the Father (that’s one) in the name of Jesus Christ (that’s two) if these things are true, and the truth of these things will be given through the power of the Holy Ghost (that’s three). No other witnesses will be given to please the itching ears and wicked hearts of men.

C. (as in Christopher)

Critic’s Forum

This forum for critical questions from those who may find fault with this work.

Sorry, only registered users may read this forum.

So tell me Julie.. Why would one have to register to see the answers to the critical questions? Why don’t you do us a favor and just print it here so all can see.

If you would just read the book (TSP) for yourself (you’ve spent more than enough time combating it) you wouldn’t look so foolish.

The “Witnesses” question has been answered ad nauseam (http://qanda.thesealedportion.com/qna_threads//read.php?19,113) but alas, there are none so blind as he who will not see.

There is a lot of people losing jobs, homes, cars, etc., why don’t you boys go find a good cause and do something worthwhile–for a change!

Or you could try and come up with a better plan to eliminate poverty and inequality around the world, than the one which was given to Christoper found at www.wwunited.org.

Two or More Witnesses

Two or more Witnesses against the Sealed Portion

Even though there are not two or more witnesses to the gold plates or
supernatural visitations that Chris claims, there ARE two or more witnesses that the Sealed Portion was a work of his own hands.

The first witness comes from the Sealed Portion itself.

This is found in chapter 47 where it comments on the following vision by Joseph and Oliver at the Kirkland Temple.

D&C 110:11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.

D&C 110:12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.

D&C 110:13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:

D&C 110:14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi — testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come —

D&C 110:15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse —

D&C 110:16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

Now… Concerning this visitation the Sealed Portion says:

47:20 For these two did have the heavens opened up to the eyes of their understanding and there appeared unto them Moses, and Elias, and Elijah, and committed unto them the keys of administration in the priesthood, so that these could go forth into the world and begin to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

21 But on this occasion, there was no physical or mortal contact with Moses, or Elias, or Elijah, BUT THESE THINGS WERE DONE BY THE EYES OF THEIR UNDERSTANDING BEING OPENED UP UNTO THEM. And these things were done in similitude of those things which were done among their fathers, even among the Jews and those of my fathers who were upon the land in which these two in the latter days shall dwell in the latter days.

22 And this first prophet shall say unto his companion: Thou knowest that the people of this world are prideful in that which they believe. Behold, they can hardly accept the revelations of God that have been given unto them already. And except they believe that an angel of God hath given these things unto us, they shall not believe that we have been given the authority to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, which we have been called to preach.

23 Therefore, LET US GIVE UNTO THE WORLD THE WORDS OF OUR UNDERSTANDING that we have received this day in the house of the Lord, so that they may be accepted by the people as that for which they are waiting and anticipating.

24 And with this first prophet, his companion shall agree and make a solemn promise that he shall never reveal unto the world that Moses, Elias, and Elijah DID NOT ACTUALLY APPEAR UNTO THEM IN THE FLESH, BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT, WHICH IS HAVING THE EYES OF THEIR UNDERSTANDING OPENED UNTO THEM.

25 And now, this prophet did nothing contrary to the will of the Lord in this thing. For behold, the children of men are slow to learn the things of God and are even slower to righteous works. And for this reason, the FATHER ALLOWETH HIS SERVANTS TO TEACH THE PEOPLE
ACCORDING TO THEIR UNDERSTANDING and prepare a way whereby they might be more receptive to His words.
***************************************************************

What do we learn from this?

According to the Sealed Portion Joseph and Oliver really did not have a visitation from Moses and Elijah, but only saw them through the eyes of their understanding. Since this type of seeing wouldn’t carry much weight with their followers because they are “prideful” they made a secret combination type of agreement to hide the truth and present the lie that they had a visitation far beyond the mere seeing with “eyes of understanding.”

Now the astounding thing is this. The Sealed Portion says that Joseph did nothing wrong and God allows this type of deception. Hmmm. Which God allows this?

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for HE IS A LIAR, AND THE FATHER OF IT.” John 8:44

The truth is this. It matters not whether it be God, angels, a prophet or ordinary man - a lie is a lie and it is wrong and contrary to the laws of heaven. A lie puts a person on the same side as the adversary of truth. In fact, it makes him an adversary to truth.

There are many times that the whole truth is not revealed by God or his servants, but that which is revealed will be as true as truth can be when placed in mortal words.

Now we see revealed in the Sealed Portion itself that a visitation may merely be something that is merely seen with “the eyes of the understanding” some of the previous witnesses concerning Chris and his work make a lot of sense.

Witness #2

Here’s a quote from the Salt Lake City Weekly by Ben Fulton December
27, 2001. Here it is quoting a friend of Chris named Kyle Williams.

Nemelka sent him a copy of his sealed portion, but (Kyle) Williams never bothered to read it. “He told me he was doing it as a way of mocking the Mormons. He was a real interesting character,” Williams said. “I had hoped he would come to his senses and live a normal life, but he’s gone the other way. He’s continued with his religious nonsense.”… Williams, his old friend, thinks of Nemelka this way: “What he believed, really, was that Joseph Smith was doing the same thing that he’s doing. That Joseph Smith had a vision of improving
people, of helping people, and that he used falsehood to further that purpose. He thought Joseph Smith invented the golden plates story and all that to further the ethics of Mormonism. Chris set out to do the same thing with his sealed portion.”

Witness #3

Another witness comes from a letter written in Chris’ own hand: In an
April 2, 1993 letter to one of his wives, which Nemelka admitted to having penned, he wrote: “When I deal with people, I am amazed at the ignorance and stupidity of most. People are so easily manipulated and deceived. Knowing this has made me a near master of manipulation. I try only to use this art, however, to help people. Sometimes the things I do seem terrible at the time, but usually
the manipulation works to accomplish that which I intended.” SLC Weekly

Witness #4

Here are some witnesses against the Sealed Portion in Chris’s own
words as quoted from the SLC Weekly:

“When I came out and told these other polygamists, fundamentalist guys, that I had really written the sealed portion, that I had done it just to show people that it could be done-they were very upset.”

“All the revelations are bullshit, of course. I made ‘em up.” But he did it all for Marie, and Marie alone, to comfort her. Marie needed the comfort of her religious convictions, and he could provide it with his writings

My whole purpose, though, was to write the sealed portion. Get the sealed portion done. Sell it to the church. My whole idea was to sell it to the LDS church. I was going to sell it to them, because all the Mormons are looking for the sealed portion to come back. I thought I had a good talent for writing. I was going to write it up and sell it to them. They could do with it what they wanted. They probably would have kept it off the market.

I set about in my own mischievous and arrogant way, of which I’m not proud of now, to prove that a person could actually write scripture and present it to people who were looking for certain scripture, Nemelka said. “I was playing on the belief that LDS people have that one day the gold plates would be returned and the sealed portion would be translated. Basically, I set about to write a fictitious version of the sealed portion as I thought Joseph Smith would have
written it had he continued to perpetuate his translation of the gold plates. Much to the chagrin of the LDS church and others, what I wrote was indeed well versed and quite appropriate for the scripture I was trying to portray. Anybody who reads it would just be totally amazed.”

My true intent was to somehow perpetuate a religion that would be based on true Christian principals of Christ-like love, Nemelka explained in a phone interview from jail. “Where I made my greatest mistake, for which I’m now extremely sorry for, is that I used deception to perpetuate what I proposed as the truth, assuming at the time that Joseph Smith had done the same thing.”

End of Quotes

It is interesting that the Sealed Portion itself reveals that Chris thinks Joseph used deception to present the idea he had visitations and this was OK.

Even though Chris now says he lied to the Newspaper to get out of jail the quotes seem to be in alignment with the Sealed Portion itself.

Chris actually states the following in his own words in his autobiography from his website: “I thought nothing of telling Ben Fulton that I had made up the whole thing…”

Presently he maintains the Sealed Portion was divinely revealed but it is difficult to take this claim seriously when he “thought nothing of” denying the whole thing.

Do you think that Joseph Smith could have denied the whole revelation of the Book of Mormon and thought nothing of it?

Could Moses have denied his visitation from God and thought nothing of it?

I don’t think so.

At this point, even if the Sealed Portion were true there is so much damage to the truth caused by this modern day prophet that God would have to start over again with someone who basically believes in telling the truth.

After studying the details here is my personal conclusion.

I believe that Chris was a sincere member of the church early in his life. Unlike many members, after his mission he continued to study his religion, its history and the scriptures.

After gaining much knowledge he had a number of discouraging things occur in his life that made him doubt the existence of God. A turning point was when he worked for the church and his image of the general authorities was shattered. He took a second look at Joseph Smith and concluded that he invented the gold plates and wrote the Book of Mormon himself. The supernatural visions were also invented to promote Joseph’s new religion.

Even so he saw a saving grace in Joseph - that Joseph Smith had good intentions. That is, he had ideas that would make the world a better place and if a deception would help accomplish this end then it was worth it.

Chris also had ideas that he believed would make the world a better place so he thought he would follow the same path. He felt he could write a work as convincing as the Book of Mormon and set out to do so with the idea it would be the Sealed Portion.

The Nemelka version of the Sealed Portion thus came into existence. The true urim and thummim was the “eyes of his understanding.”

End of E-mail received.

I enjoyed reading your points. I was, in fact, interested in the sealed portion upon reading that it had apparently been translated by Christopher on a website years ago. For many years I had spent much time trying to find answers and piece together what seemed an almost unsolvable puzzle of essentially all the things I had come to wonder. Thus, in my individual case I suppose I wasn’t as critical of it when I read it, more just interested, and, I will admit, in my heart I thought it was true even though I had never met Christopher. It did personally make sense to me, but I understand that that’s just me. I have no jurisdiction as to weather or not it should or would make sense to another. But that is why to me, while interesting in it’s own right, such fingerprint techniques don’t really matter to me when it comes to distinguishing that which is, by Moroni’s protocol, GOOD, and that which is bad. To me it’s more about what is actually conveyted, the concepts presented, and the overall theme. And it’s potential of cranking out peaceful, pure hearted people who just want to love others and do good and live in peace with themselves and others. I mean to me It could be some po down hick talk sayin “i reckon we should be loven our youngins and each other liken ourselves,” to me, that’s still the same message of the gospel! Whatever work has the greatest potential of cranking out the most kind, most pure, most sincere modern day anti-nephi-lehis, is, to me, a work that would HAVE to have as least SOMETHING worth while.

But here are some of my thoughts in responses to your last post to me.

Again, I will admit, of all my experiences in this life, using an actual urim and thummin is not one of them! So I don’t really know personally the exact details of how they work or worked for either Joseph or Chris in terms of the “plate translation process.” To me it seems reasonable, however, that what is actually received, is whatever is conveyed on the plates into plain old English, or as perhaps at times even an image. It is then up to the one receiving the message to “transpose” what is received into the wording of “already accepted scripture.” Critics of Joseph Smith, for example, will point out passages of the Book of Mormon that “suspiciously” match passages of the bible. Or seemingly random words like “adieu.” Passages of Isaiah and the sermon on the mount would seem, to critics, as simply direct plagiarisms form the bible. Is it not possible Joseph Smith had to use some of his own language understandings and abilities to get the book of Mormon in a format that would “sound” in a familiar context as that of the already accept book of Scripture to the christian world, the Bible? But I would say, if you really want to have a case with the fingerprint method, you should do it to the ENTIRE book! Who knows, you might find you like the movie after all after “seeing” the whole thing!

Now, again, personally it doesn’t matter to me what you have personally concluded in terms of who is right and who is wrong, if what you believe makes you happy! But you mention that to you it seems like Christopher is not of a high enough moral character to be chosen for the work of, say, translating the sealed portion. All I can say is, isn’t it true that many rejected Christ because they saw him as a sinner? Now, in retrospect it’s easy to see that Christ was perhaps “right” after all. The point, judging someone by the rumors said about them, or the actions they made in their past, to me, seems unwise. Especially if you have never personally met them for yourself! If I want to know if someones “prescription for personal peace” has any validity, then I would say the best thing to do, is honestly hear them out giving them the benefit of the doubt, and then fairly TEST out weather or not their “protocol” actually works. If, in the end, their words, works and/or fruit leads a person to more personal peace, and more towards truly loving others, without needing to give ANY glory to the messenger, then, in my mind, the message is “of God” as scriptures would say. IF it leads to contention, bitterness, and strife, or having to give any sort of “praise” or glory to the messenger, then, as the scriptures would say, it’s more from the “Satan” department. So all I can do is a person is examine my own heart and weather or not I am seeking out measures of peace, or measures of strife and discord.

But you ask a good question:

‘who is to say the first 2 (sealed protons) aren’t the real ones?’

Anyone or no one! All one would have to do is give them a fair chance, completely read them and decide for themselves. I’m sure there are perhaps those how would say that are the real ones. Though I’ve never personally talked to one that I’m aware of.

As to the point of the interpreted denial of the necessity of baptism…

Maybe it’s not about the NECESSITY of being baptized, but what constitutes a true baptism. Your definition of baptism may simply differ than that of the ultimate concept of baptism as presented in the Sealed Portion. It just depends upon how person chooses to look at it! Someone could very rightfully make a case that the sealed portion and even Christopher ABSOLUTELY teach that baptism, yes even by immersion, and, yes, even by fire, is, in fact, a necessity before one can ever “enter” into true peace or “heaven.” So is becoming like a little child first right? So it’s all just how a person chooses to look at it. But if we took fire as literally as we do water then we should all have a flamethrower room in which to baptize ourselves! So I guess it just comes down to a matter of perspective!

Also when you say:

“So like I pointed out if part of him says TSP - ‘final word of Christ’ then part says WUF - ‘good for the world’ and his personal life says - ‘do what I say, not as I have done’ - what do you think that recipe makes - a pile of crap.”

Well, in my mind it would make…one book of Scripture, which may or may not be true, and could only be known by sincerely giving it an open and honest COMPLETE read and then forming an option, one humanitarian organization, and one fellow human being.

But one man’s crap is another mans treasure! Which is why personally I believe in the council to respect others’ beliefs as if they were your own. But if it’s crap to you, if, to you, it’s not true, then may you walk your way in peace and happiness in the way that works for you!

Maybe for the past 150 years the “funlness of the everlasting gospel” was not taken……maybe just misunderstood! Maybe for the last 150 years the gospel has been here in the words of Christ as delivered to the ancient inhabitants of America…but maybe all the plain a precious parts were simply buried under the confusing and conflicting options, notions, and or “doctrines of men” attempting to incorporate this gospel into their Churches! And so, perhaps one of the functions of the sealed portion is to, once and for all, bring to light just exactly what IS the gospel and what is so plain and precious about it.

Maybe Heavenly Father simply allows us to be lead by whatever type of leaders we want, and will give is whatever we seek, weather simplicity, or complicated religions. Maybe he allows us to have whatever we are after so that we can learn. And maybe through it all, he loves us no matter what, and simply wants us to learn for ourselves so that we can come to finally see the need for a Christ, and the need and value of truly living the Gospel. I mean I think it’s at least possible anyway

But I would have to agree with you on the capacity of great love in the heart of mother. Even, and perhaps most especially, in an eternal mother! And, likewise, as I said, whatever work shall have the greatest potential of bringing out the most love in human kind, to me, whatever work brings the most respect, the most love, the most honor to all women, and mothers, is the work that I shall gladly go down with the ship with.

WHICH IS WHY YOU SHOULD ALL BE NICE TO JULIE :-)

At any rate, whatever you shall choose to do, or simply continue to do, my best prayers and thoughts are for you as well Gettterdone.

Peace!

Random Observer

Pretty good points, I am more intrigued first with how ‘random’ are you. Not many stumble on to the TSP with out really wanting something more than they already have (in knowledge). I admit the reason I found it was searching out a clip in a newspaper editorial that referenced ‘TSP’. I had not heard anything of the gold plates being ‘re released’ at least not through church channels. Then there I was looking through the myriad of information on the SP website. Personal stories, books, a foundation, question & answer section, and a group yahoo forum.

I did a lot more looking into things then most do, and yes I can see why CMN says the work should be judged on its own merits and not his - tough past for certain but, odd irregularities for a person of such a caliber to be selected by Advanced Beings. I searched just what was available to me through public channels and I found enough to sway me different if I was going to choose someone for such a heavily scrutinized role of the TSP. I can see how Joseph too had his questionable ‘treasure digging’ reputation so I could give some room for allowances.

I read in a different fashion then most, usually there are multiple books read at once. On my night stand I have had up to 5 at once where they rotate with different days or just different moods. On an occasion a book will grab me and then it gets preference till finished - one of the last ones was the “Left Behind” series - also good fictional writing. So back to the TSP, a dozen chapters or so into it I remember the ‘fingerprint method’ from back in school when plagiarizing has been investigated by professional writing detectives - their access to the computer software makes the determination for them in minutes. Being without such software I started by hand, taking the TSP some from the beginning, middle, and end - then checked his temple story, parts of 666, and his ‘over lengthy’ group postings. One of the big clues was length of his sentences - like me I like using commas, dashes, and punctuation to keep one going till my thought is ’rounded out’. Then I start again - this happens to most people to some degree, however the amount of substance you want in it and how articulate you are is really based on the person’s grammar history. And yes people do tend to write like they speak, so patterns do become obvious - and especially improper usage of grammar. Long story short - the glove/shoe fit, the TSP was right in line with CMN’s grammar/ vocabulary - well what to do??? So I asked some questions, and the answer always came back have you read everything? Have you read the other works? —- It was always something I wasn’t doing right. SO things don’t add up and I can’t get a straight answer, what is going on here - this should be a like ‘riding a scripture bicycle’. I have learned how it works, but why is it going in circles - there should be level on level of intertwined Book of Mormon messages, and lots of amazing new pure knowledge. I mean this is why it was held back, the human race wasn’t ready for it - they weren’t ready for more light - but instead in one part - I read about how in error the LDS church is —- I mean what the hell, Heavenly Father who won’t deceive you - gives you a book on his restored church and they already should know its not going to work according to the TSP - and so they start over with CMN?

Come on Heavenly Father isn’t into wasting his time or watching things go astray for over 150 years before he is going to give it a tune up. And it surely wasn’t a lack of persons who could of fit the bill to make the changes sooner, or think about this for a minute: If Joseph was ‘period’ selected because of the new printing press availability - this really helped the growth by far. So now the next big ‘distribution’ period was radio, then television, then movies, then internet - all of these periods had their day in the sun so to speak - so where was the corrective measures by Heavenly Father in each one of these periods? But as knowledge and access to world wide aspects of information - something unique did happen, 3 people came out with in 10 years of each other The Sealed Portion of the Gold Plates - CMN being the last, but who is to say the first 2 aren’t the real ones?

With this being said then it does go to character, who are you going to believe in? Who does your mind and heart witness for you is the right one?

This is where I checked out, I saw the loose and fast way CMN brought the TSP into existence and his personal history that made me think twice. I look at the two other websites on their works and I don’t see the fruit there either - the PO box is one of the first clues for me, if its working and of Heavenly Father you would need a real connection to it. Meetings, donation center, events - all of this to strengthen and grow your members.

I agree, ALL of this aside if a person’s program or organization’s program helps the way Jesus Christ showed us - then say so. I have no issue with that BUT when CMN states his Advanced Being theory and how with his steps you can do it with out Christ, and you get baptised by fire in your soul/ heart by the Holy Ghost, you have been misled and are missing a part of the recipe.

I would be more impressed if CMN’s Advanced Beings were Heavenly Father and Jesus, that would probably be more probable to me. So like I pointed out if part of him says TSP - ‘final word of Christ’ then part says WUF - ‘good for the world’ and his personal life says - ‘do what I say, not as I have done’ - what do you think that recipe makes - a pile of crap.

And like I have said from the beginning, his path really fits the Bible’s depiction of the Anti-Christ the person. He desecrates the temple (both by his “vision” and his SS book), the denies Christ, he persecutes the saints, and many other items (I have a whole list I have posted in the past if you want it). And my most recent surprise is interacting with one of his ‘frogs’ out of his mouth, because CMN gave him his name and charge to serve him in his absence - Nobody’s Business.

CMN often asks about the ‘locusts’ in Revelations, they are your cell phones. They buzz like insects, they torment the one with the mark of the beast (being of the world), and their tales (though the Bible says tails) sting them. The bill collectors, the rumors people spread (false witnesses), all the stories that get into people’s heads - that causes torment, depression, and panic. These little pests everyone has one, however with followers of Christ the mindset is different the ability to go to him in prayer to find comfort in his strength. For the people who don’t have Christ, the burden we build up in our heads does become endless torment - for most see this life as all there is, to them money and status is everything. The worst is yet to come for the torment they will cause.

In a way I guess I walked out on ‘CMN’s book’ but the movie in my head that was supposed to be like a prequel or sequel to the Book of Mormon, and it wasn’t making sense. And before I donate my ‘mind’s real estate’ to a waste of time, it needed some more explanation. So that is when I started disassembling the whole ‘CMN circle’ to see what was going on, I asked questions and got dismissed, I looked into his history and got surprised, I pondered and studied it out in my mind and got nothing but strange fiction, and so I looked for who else he could be and got saw him as the Antichrist (or at least a spot on match as a type and shadow of the real AC to come).

If at his pow wow, he just comes out and says it in plain English so everyone can hear it - then I am done, his followers know the truth - whether they see that way or not they heard it, — What side are you following, Christ or your Advanced Beings???. The LDS church has with stood many attacks in may different forms, but if CMN roars up further than where he lays now - I’ll be back.

In a way he is serving a purpose, however you look at it, if a disgruntled member has dismissed all the church teachings and has found his or her needs in CMN’s world then maybe they were meant to be there - I guess some of the wheat and tares will sort themselves out ‘with out hands’. I had my 20’s to attest to trying things that were forbidden growing up under my parents roof, I learned my lesson from it. If I can help some of ’seeking members’ then I feel my back was suited for a specific burden in this life, to help others wanting more input.

Yes if it was a matter of loving the hell out of him, I guess I could… but somethings are deeper than love, can heal on its own, if he is happy doing his thing then so be it. He probably should fathom that in time there will be someone with real damage done to them because of his methods, Advanced or Not, and their resolve may take them beyond reason and consequences. I can’t believe how many persons that follow him, leave families/ kids/ their whole lives - odds are eventually breaking up that many more scenarios will have a wayward result. Not my suggestion only a perspective, when his counsel is rough handed to especially those who need something to hold to - it makes for a weak foundation to count on.

You want to know where the bottom less pit is??? It is in a “mothers heart”, for she has no bottom to how far she would go for love for one of her own. Love will be the ingredient which will save this world. I think people will be surprised how they are supposed to use their minds and hearts together, and not alone.

My best prayers and thoughts are for you Random Observer, for your patience and comments have indeed taught me something here tonight.

Getterdone

I will admit I have never personally done the “fingerprint” method you mention to any book. But could you imagine if no one were to accept the Book of Mormon because it didn’t say, match the “finger print” of the bible authors who were all inspired by the “same” holy ghost, thus concluding that Joseph Smith made it up? Or if it did, perchance, match the bible the critics would simply say Joseph Smith plagiarized the bible (and they, in fact do). How then could a person ever gain a true testimony of the Book of Mormon if the finger prints DON’T “match”? Or heck, even if they do? Suppose I had never fully read the unsealed portion of the book of mormon…how should I know weather or not it is good if the fingerprint doesn’t match the bible’s? Should I not judge the book based on it’s own merits? And actually read the whole thing and them make up my mind?

Nevertheless, my understanding may be incorrect, but isn’t the “unsealed” portion of the book of Mormon actually mostly put together by Moroni’s father, Mormon? And the sealed portion, by Moroni himself? Thus, even with the “fingerprint” method you describe, would not one expect a difference in “fingerprint” in a book put together mostly by Mormon, translated by Joseph Smith, and one ENTIRELY put together by Moroni, translated by Christopher? Put together by TWO different original “Abridgers,” taking from COMPLETELY different “abridgment sources” and translated by two distinctly different people, would, in my mind, make an “exact” match of fingerprint to the final “product” seem highly highly improbable. You got Mormon abridging from plates of Nephi. You got many different people writing on the plates of nephi. You got Moroni contributing to the end. Then you’ve got Jospeh Smith translating this all into Kings James English of the early 1800’s. Then in the sealed portion, you’ve got moroni abridging the vision of the brother of Jared, adding in his own insights, and all of this translated by Christopher in the year 2004, who, to make it better “match” the king James vernacular of “accept scripture” had to transpose it into the King James way of saying things.

Nevertheless, are you saying you actually did this finger print method to the the ENTIRE Sealed Portion? The whole book?

What you said in the last post to me was

“I actually started reading the sealed portion way back when, it didn’t feel right, it wasn’t the same message as the Book of Mormon”

I don’t know if that means you finished it, and therefore were able to actually do this fingerprint thing which maybe you have. But, here is a question for you, that may seem non religious haha.

Have you ever watched a movie that, for the majority of the movie you were like “hmmm…I don’t know about this movie…I don’t know if I like it…” but then, once you see the ending, and THEN process the movie your opinion suddenly shits to “well, no okay, NOW I like it.” It’s happened to me anyway!

The point, understanding the ultimate message of ANY book, or in this case, the sealed portion, is something that can only be TRULY understood once you’ve “seen” the “whole movie.” Not that a person doesn’t have the right to walk out on a movie at any time they wish! But that’s not to say they wouldn’t end up liking the movie had they stayed for the WHOLE thing! Thus when people criticize the movie, the ENTIRE movie without even SEEING the ENTIRE movie, their assessment of the ENTIRE move is almost not even fair to the movie!

“This movie had a poor message.”

“did you see the whole movie?”

“no. But I didn’t like what I saw.”

“But then how do you even know what the ultimate message of the movie was?”

The point- you, me, Roger Ebert, whoever, would indeed be in better position to be a “credible critic” of a book, movie, whatever if you, I, he/her actually open minded READ/saw the entire work first and gave it a fair chance, Just as all the missionaries try and get people to do with the UN-sealed portion. Then if, say in the case of the Sealed Portion as presented to the world by Christopher, after honestly reading the WHOLE thing, you have a legitimate case as to how it could be considered “anti-christ” or something that “deny’s the atonement,” or is somehow a “bad fruit” from a bad “tree”… a work that DOESN’T lead a person to doing good and loving others, then sure, by all means use your divinely given free agency to form whatever opinion you want, or keep whatever one you currently have. Or don’t even read it all! That’s the jist of free agency anyway, right? That we can all do whatever we want….so long as what we do doesn’t stop or impede another’s right to do the same.

But a clue from Moroni that I happen to agree with as far as “judging” something to be of God or not actually comes from the Good Old un-sealed portion:

“For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter watter; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Chirst; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil. Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and do do that which is evil continually. But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually…For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil”

If the Sealed Portion, the Final Testament of Jesus Christ, as presented to the world by Christopher Nemelka, does NOT lead or invite a person to do good, love others, and follow the teachings, life and example of Jesus, the Christ, then perhaps using Moroni’s explanation he is indeed a tool of the devil, and “anti-christ” as you seem to feel…but, then again if, perchance, it actually DOES lead a person to doing good, loving others and following more closely to the gospel of Chirst…then what? Shall then it not be deemed of God? Who shall then stand forth to call it evil?? To say it’s not good?

At any rate, I wish you well Mr. Getterdone. And if you go to the Seminar please just don’t try and hurt Chris or something. I don’t think you would, but I mean, even if chirs is your enemy, are we not counseled as followers of Jesus to love our enemies, and do good to them? So why don’t you use Chis’ own Christian council against him and Love the Hell out of him!

And be nice to Julie! haha

peace, brother

What are the first 8 words that I wrote in that post?

This is called the “real truth revealed”.

Seriously….Give it rest JJ Dewey—or explain your plagiarism as requested.

Either way…it doesn’t look good for you as a purveyor of any amount of “Truth”.

I only became aware of the TSP this year.. March or April at the latest. So I have not been around as long as you guessed. But you keep on making your statements as if you have the “real truth”. It must sound good and look good on paper… but not so good in the “real” department.

I actually started reading the sealed portion way back when, it didn’t feel right, it wasn’t the same message as the Book of Mormon - it was like Moroni got hooked on phonics while abridging the plates - the BoM had substance and verse while the sealed portion floated right around CMN’s circle of rants and raves - the fallacy of the LDS church, the rise of another, the error of the saints - I think at one point it practically spells his name out - where did Moroni all of a sudden get all this - even the most advanced or for that matter unadvanced still have a writing fingerprint. You can see this by taking any author, and attributing number values to words - smaller the word, or even more common words get a lower number. More letters and more complex Nouns, Verbs, Adjectives, etc. get a larger number assigned to them. Two rules to keep in mind, the numbers get added per sentence or verse. Then sentences get added together for paragraphs. Now you average each ‘rule’ - quantity of words by numerals totaled - keep track of this average by the books or chapter of the authors works. It becomes obvious the amount of filler material used - run on sentences, grammar structure. You really do see a fingerprint with this method. Now compare other works, unless there was a stroke or other mental retardation involved, the pattern stays consistent. Now compare Joseph and the BOM - there is a difference you can see his diary entries prior, during, and after the translation period you can see the meat on the stick - the caliper of grammar used for the BoM.

Now look at CMN’s works especially his early writings, and posts on the sealed portion yahoo group website (run by another person) - you can see the sentence averages, run with in a few points of each other - you can compare the sealed portion book with the same result. Now compare to the BoM - there is a difference. In Joseph’s description, the U & T are used so the translation has the same “light” - which is Heavenly Father’s gift to the person entrusted with them. However this doesn’t occur between the Book of Mormon and the Sealed Portion they are substantially different - grammar, structure, and internal dialogue conflicts. If Moroni was the only one responsible for the abridgement then the translation is to blame. The obvious fact is the BoM stood for over 170 years before CMN dealt into the ’sealed portion’ events, he came up with some good fictional writing and universal truths recycled back into scripture with his follow up supporting books, and him alone.

Want some real insight talk to some of the early members, and co founders - their stories all lay similar. Its just CMN, changing names/ changing his foundation/ he just keeps changing. And all this time standing on the Platform created by the Bible and the Book of Mormon who represent, Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost - who CMN has said isn’t really needed to move up in this life, doesn’t need Christ’s atonement, don’t need to be baptised in his name - CMN has put himself above Jesus - thus touting his ‘Chosen’ role - Just like the Antichrist is foretold to do. And yes I am showing the world how their wool isn’t really hiding their true nature.

Julie and CMN have a “special” thing together, I am married and happily at that. Julie really lost a lot when she choose CMN over her family and LDS church’s salvation through Jesus Christ.

I really pour my life into defending Christ, standing up for something, giving back to him what he has done for me so many times. Each of us serve to set an example, mine is often viewed as rough and harsh - but sometimes it takes alot to scour through the grime to get things clean again.

Stand for something, stand for the man you have the best chance at salvation through, where as you could try another religion or faith who believes in another god or theology and then you can face them at Judgement.

BUT YES if the WUF foundation is based on Jesus’ example and teachings then give credit to the man, stand up for him, choose a side. Seems like CMN really wants a wide range of latitude to pick and choose were he will rest his head. For me I choose to have Christ watch my back, and I will set a witness of how the sealed portion is CMN’s fiction and nothing else.

And I am not harping on you, Random Observer - I have been sharing my message and findings since I stepped into CMN’s pile, and wanted to ask some questions to him and he shrugged me off. Actually he about ‘pissing’ on me then ex’d me out of his group website. So I started digging through the slime to see what really was going on, its just CMN’s pyramid on a sinking vessel. I am just trying to curb collateral damage, LDS excommunication is bad news - I’d work on new converts just as hard as saving over looked members running after sealed fiction.

I have been trying to meet with CMN since March, I think. And now just to think less than 3 weeks, for him to choose which side he is going to pick but I need to see this with my own eyes - interesting witness indeed.

But Julie unless he just wows the burning right into my bosom, I having a hard time thinking he is on the right side or same side as me. He might appeal to ones mind (understanding and wisdom) but as for one’s heart (love and patience) he falls way way short. Just look at what he has said in the past especially to his close friends/ members when they really needed some heart felt TLC, instead they just got more book quotes and get over it attitude. Jesus always managed to have both of these confirmations for one’s witness to know it is true and of him.

Getterdone

But if dear Julie, a WOMAN, who as one in the Church would say, has NO “priesthood,” then why in the heck do you give her so much credit? Many men seem to fall in love with her, perhaps you are one of them

At any rate, If you have your peace in the faith that you believe and practice, may you keep it dear brother.

And what about your lack of Jesus, don’t forget the hole is about the double standard you can’t seem to grasp. Make a statement do you believe in Christ or not and have the CMN do the same. In fact why doesn’t CMN help the Jewish faith out and translate the sealed off Torah section, while he is at why not the Koran - you get the point yet. If you (and the other sealed portion members) base all your teachings and statements off of Christ’s Bible and Book of Mormon then say it, other wise he means nothing to you, you just give lip service, or bear a false witness, either way you deny him - so just say it.

Fix the hole, then I’ll move on

Chris

See if you can grasp this concept…

I’m the President of Wells Fargo, but the money people deposit there does not go into MY pocket.

Next “hole”?

Are you there Julie…. I figured by time I got down with FHE you would have touted some other scripture and declaring CMN’s purposeful right to make stuff up because he was Chosen to do so. I still think records from Mental Institutions should be made public, I mean as a matter of public safety, like Utah thinks driving records should be, or child kidnapping…. Maybe I can see why CMN wouldn’t want his name there with WUFfy’s, does No balls have a better public record? FYI….Mr.No Balls = Nobodys Business if you didn’t know for new readers, he is the mystery person who is surrogate writing for CMN, while CMN is missing till his big show at the end of August, on CMN’s other two other group yahoo sites - MWAW and WUF

Julie I almost can’t wait my for my next question to come to life,- it has to do with why Advanced Beings wouldn’t chose CMN - its really good, BUT lets get real why waste all my fun audience participation questions here if you aren’t going to post them on the MWAW or actually fix the ‘hole’. The WUFfy vessel is going to sink with holes in it before the show, quick have him right another book or chapter on how Moroni saw WUFfy with CMN at its helm - ……..the following is a perceived advertisement……………from the new delivered super sealed off portion of plates from the hidden bottom compartment, Joseph never saw the false bottom!, and just in is also Moroni’s thoughts on CMN’s upcoming book “Light of the Moon” just translated from the gold plates outtake pages taken from Moroni’s trash and all this at no extra fee to heaven or earth…… end of silly fake advertisement…..

And yes I’ll ‘keep it simple stu’, right back at you, just cause you asked me nice and all. Getterdone

Chris Columbus

If your still really to your word you’ll post that last email on your MWAW group site page. And tell me when your done fixing this hole and I’ll sens over my next one. Sort of coincidental, this last weekend in the very room where the sealed off pow wow is to take place they were hosting auditions for a horror movie here in Salt Lake. They asked if I wanted to try, but despite my charming style - I declined saying there are bigger messes to clean up first. Nice room though, good view of Washington Park and Museum - is it Library security or outside security you are going to use? I was surprised their armed too, valuable books - I guess, don’t worry I’m not dangerous I just have an amazing way of seeing through things without ’stones in my eyes’.

Come on, fix it quick, I on a roll, I feel it starting again. Heee HAAA Getterdone and clean

Chris Hasselhoff

Let me be more precise here before I leave it alone well proved, if you don’t want anything to do with Jesus Christ or his teachings then why don’t you and your leader make it real clear like with a proclamation or other big word that means the same - No Balls can help I sure.

Here is Sue email just the way she sent it to me: Re: Financial Disclosure Request‏
From: Worldwide United Foundation (support@wwunited.org)
You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as junk
Sent: Wed 4/22/09 4:52 PM
To: Chris H (getterdone481@hotmail.com)

Dear Chris H,

As of just a few weeks ago the Worldwide United Foundation is no longer a legal corporation and therefore will no longer be keeping financial records pertaining to its activities. There are no officers or agents available to consider your request. This has happened so recently that the website has not been updated to show the change. It will be updated in the very near future.

The Worldwide United Foundation (TM) has been placed under the supervision of its founder, Christopher, whose work can be viewed at www.thesealedportion.com.

Any other inquiries should be made through that website.

I believe this will answer both emails that were received from you this day.

May there ONE DAY be NO POOR AMONG US,

Sincerely,
Sue Kammerman
WUF Secretary

I think Julie if the money goes to Chris Nemelka - the silly website should say SO, if it doesn’t then tell Sue I want my financial report on the ‘Foundation’ (these are public records, and should be availible on request - I think its is the law - unless you’ll claim CMN is paying taxes and child support on it - your choice public affairs director????).

Maybe a next step is anyone who want a copy of the email forwarded to them, can have it, just drop me your address - mine is: getterdone481@hotmail.com - my disposable phone number is 801-390-2282.

“but I will not buy into the craziness that seems to follow that group.”

YOU ARE one of the crazy groupies that’s been following TSP— longer than I’ve been around!!!

If Christ’s name was plastered throughout that site do you think the Muslims, Jews, Atheists, etc. would want any thing to do with it, or stand behind it?

This program is for ALL God’s children, not just those who pretend to believe in Him.

Here is your first hole. And if you are quick you can fix it before the masses know it. I went to your WUF site and typed in ‘Christ’ in the Search box - and you know what his name is not used once on the website! Tried ‘Jesus’ too. Then ‘Chris’, nope. Then ‘government, money’ - and wam bam thank you mam, all over, so I know the little search engine works,……. hmm hmmm I am thinking of more words, now.

So for simple minded folk like me, how does Christ’s name get thrown around so much and not once show up? That is why I tried Jesus to make sure. It sounds like Christ, it looks like Christ….. Julie if it doesn’t say it, don’t make stuff up, OK. It is CMN’s creation, nothing tied to Jesus Christ.

I tried looking for the pyramid too, guess that disappeared - probably smart idea.

Oh by the way where is the disclaimer that it isn’t a ‘Foundation’, and that all funds go to Chris Nemelka, I have an email from Sue that states this is so, should I post it?

Little oversights look silly when your Chosen leader is so Advanced? And Mr. No Balls, I like his emptiness too, he echoes like CMN though.

Getterdone

Goodness if I don’t believe in the wondrous one. Damn me if I don’t bow to the anointed prophet of God. For I shall reap my just reward for being the unbeliever. What? will I find myself in Hell?

Keep your life. Have fun… but I will not buy into the craziness that seems to follow that group.